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Gen Chat Needs to be Monitored 24/7

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Community Content
Gen Chat Needs to be Monitored 24/7

Narmical's Avatar


Narmical
01.23.2013 , 04:18 PM | #131
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
@LordFailstrom, Nobody is asking for Congress to get involved and pass laws ... Oh wait, that's not what you meant? Did you want to re-read the First Amendment and try again?
This is a pet peve of mine right there. The misunderstanding of free speech. Free speech is an ideal, one that the founders of the US government believed in. The First amendment, is merely something that makes the government respect free speech. Free speech is not the first amendment and the first amendment is not free speech.

So your argument there is a straw-man. LordFailstrom obviously believes in free speech irrespective of government or first amendment, and thinks that EVERYONE should respect it, not just the government. Sure, there is no law forcing anyone but the government to respect it, but that doesn't mean one shouldn't respect it.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.23.2013 , 04:19 PM | #132
A pet peeve of mine is people misunderstanding the First Amendment to be: "I can say anything I want and you can't do anything about it. Heuheuheuheu."

The First Amendment is about laws being passed, and enforcing said laws legally. You won't be prosecuted for violating Terms of Service in General Chat, but you surely can be banned for it if EA chooses to do so.

As well, there are actually exceptions to Free Speech as covered by the First Amendment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...ech_exceptions

Take note of this line: "Speech that involves incitement, false statements of fact, obscenity, child ***********, threats, and speech owned by others are all completely exempt from First Amendment protections."

The objectionable things in General Chat kinda fall under that umbrella, wouldn't you say?
Quote: Originally Posted by Narmical View Post
So your argument there is a straw-man. LordFailstrom obviously believes in free speech irrespective of government or first amendment, and thinks that EVERYONE should respect it, not just the government. Sure, there is no law forcing anyone but the government to respect it, but that doesn't mean one shouldn't respect it.
I had to re-read this a few times. At first I thought you had a similar viewpoint as mine, but now I think you are saying that my argument was Straw Man and that I should respect Free Speech as an ideal in General Chat.

If I duplicated you correctly, I can respect your viewpoint, but let me point out two things:

1. LordFailstrom didn't use the phrase Free Speech in his post. Not once. He very specifically said First Amendment. Perhaps he intended to communicate the ideal of Free Speech, but I didn't get that. I duplicated that he was specifically talking about the constitution. My statement to him still holds in that regard. It is incorrect to say, "anyone can say what they want in Gen Chat in the United States because of the First Amendment"

A Straw Man fallacy relies on misrepresenting someone's position. I maintain that my response is based on the stated position, and is in fact, correct.

2. Rude behavior cannot be legislated against. But group pressure can be brought to bear on the individual to change his/her ways. I am in favor of this. I'd like to go back to my public restaurant example. The screaming, cursing, threatening child can be either censured by his parents, or ejected from the restaurant. Perhaps this is cross-purposes with the ideals of Free Speech as the founders believed in. But you know, I somehow doubt it.

If Jefferson and the rest of them observed a bunch of misbehaving people threatening, cursing and shouting racial epithets and then hiding behind "Free Speech" as an ideal, I believe they would be outraged by the misuse of a noble concept into something base and horrible.

Kabjat's Avatar


Kabjat
01.23.2013 , 05:49 PM | #133
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
A Straw Man fallacy relies on misrepresenting someone's position. I maintain that my response is based on the stated position, and is in fact, correct.

2. Rude behavior cannot be legislated against. But group pressure can be brought to bear on the individual to change his/her ways. I am in favor of this. I'd like to go back to my public restaurant example. The screaming, cursing, threatening child can be either censured by his parents, or ejected from the restaurant. Perhaps this is cross-purposes with the ideals of Free Speech as the founders believed in. But you know, I somehow doubt it.

If Jefferson and the rest of them observed a bunch of misbehaving people threatening, cursing and shouting racial epithets and then hiding behind "Free Speech" as an ideal, I believe they would be outraged by the misuse of a noble concept into something base and horrible.
I agree with this sentiment. Especially the red text. (emphasis mine) The group pressure can consist of many things, all of which can be carried out diplomatically and discreetly. If more people actually REPORTED unacceptable speech that went against TOS, then the the better the TOS could be enforced and the message could be slowly but emphatically sent to offenders that it's NOT worth it to act like a beastly and abusive tool in public channels. But Bioware cannot police this themselves. It's up to the community to do it.

This could be more effectively carried out if Bioware gave more reporting choices than 'report spam' when you click on the name. Usually I have to open a ticket, but in my mind, it's worth it if some ill-mannered jerk gets a suspension for racial slurs and rape jokes.
Quote: Originally Posted by Thaltom View Post
Are you playing TOR on an Atari Potato?

amaresch's Avatar


amaresch
01.23.2013 , 07:33 PM | #134
WOnderful, Trolls who are against human decency- and the enforcement of it. So here's a suggestion- Get rid of chat. It adds nothing. Want to join a group, hit the groupfinder. Confused and have a question- use Google. Want to sell something- use GTN. Want to gloat because you ganked a player 20 levels your junior, pick up a phone. Want to Role Play, bring your computer over to a friends house. This would be a better solution, but did I ask for this? No. if people can not act like respectable people, then Bioware needs to deal with it because it is a problem. This isn't a little thing like my robe makes my butt look fat. This is a bug that needs addressing.

The others on here who are so quick to spout their views on entitlement over responsibility need to realize that before witnessing a post about implied incestual rape that I did turn gen chat off multiple times because it does not add anything to the game and usually detracts. I did use the convoluted in-game reporting process. I do use /ignore.

So get off my case when I join another thread instead of creating my own to complain about despicable actions by others. That is the purpose of these forums. Also, deal with the fact that I do take a stand for decency, and I am offended by the depraved, and will use the tools provided to do something about it.
L'héritage S'Attarde
The Harbinger

Narmical's Avatar


Narmical
01.23.2013 , 10:16 PM | #135
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
1. LordFailstrom didn't use the phrase Free Speech in his post. Not once. He very specifically said First Amendment. Perhaps he intended to communicate the ideal of Free Speech, but I didn't get that. I duplicated that he was specifically talking about the constitution. My statement to him still holds in that regard. It is incorrect to say, "anyone can say what they want in Gen Chat in the United States because of the First Amendment"
I stand corrected. He did say "First Amendment". Lay on!

Kakashioftheye's Avatar


Kakashioftheye
01.24.2013 , 08:21 AM | #136
Is anyone here familiar with the term "talking heads"? Just saying...

Kabjat's Avatar


Kabjat
01.24.2013 , 11:12 AM | #137
Quote: Originally Posted by Kakashioftheye View Post
Is anyone here familiar with the term "talking heads"? Just saying...
These types of comments annoy me because they are like those Facebook status updates where the person is begging for someone to elaborate on their cryptic post, but refuse to actually reveal what the heck they are talking about.

With that said, I'm afraid I am unaware of any other purpose of a forum like this if it's not to "talk" about things. Perhaps we could switch to Semaphore.

*waves flags wildly off of the bow of a ship, hoping someone will interpret my views regarding the bad behavior of internet trolls in the general chat in SW:TOR*

Let's hope someone was watching!
Quote: Originally Posted by Thaltom View Post
Are you playing TOR on an Atari Potato?

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.24.2013 , 12:14 PM | #138
Quote: Originally Posted by Kabjat View Post
These types of comments annoy me because they are like those Facebook status updates where the person is begging for someone to elaborate on their cryptic post, but refuse to actually reveal what the heck they are talking about.

With that said, I'm afraid I am unaware of any other purpose of a forum like this if it's not to "talk" about things. Perhaps we could switch to Semaphore.

*waves flags wildly off of the bow of a ship, hoping someone will interpret my views regarding the bad behavior of internet trolls in the general chat in SW:TOR*

Let's hope someone was watching!
Heh, I agree with you 100%.

I believe Kakashioftheye was referring to a self-proclaimed "Expert" giving their opinions in a public setting. I'm also pretty sure it was meant in a derogatory way.

Yeah, let's git rid'a this hi-falutin' speakins and git back ta yellin' and insultin' each uthu. Lawdy nobody got time fa that "tawkin' head" stuff.

Crerin's Avatar


Crerin
01.24.2013 , 12:29 PM | #139
holy crap this is a lot of QQ all at once, let me take a second to laugh. Seriously though people it's the internet, you are gonna have a ton of people spewing hateful, stupid, nonsense 24/7 and bioware should not be using any resources to control it.... There are so many other real issues with the game not related to chat - or the recent fix of how trees look YES - that this should at the bottom of the list of priorities.... Am I saying not to investigate reports and make sure people aren't spewing racist stuff or trying to get past filters? No of course have a CSR look into that, but unless it is severe they will just get unbanned right away if they are a sub.... All I'm saying is if you don't like gen chat, turn it off, especially in the fleets where it is the worst of any location.
Krer 50 Op
Krerin 50 Sorc
Rin 50 Mara

Jiminison's Avatar


Jiminison
01.24.2013 , 12:58 PM | #140
I am not going to say that the talk in chat doesn't make my eye twitch. But what I am going to say is toward my American bros and sisters we know this is a game but we also know that these small knee jerk reactions to control any speech is a slippery slope. This conditions us to be ok with the First Amendment being eroded. This company is well with in it's right to control anything we say since this is their intellectual property but from what I am told this is now an American Co. so do what you will that.
I think we just need to slow down here a bit and not jump the gun. If you enjoy (arguably) The freedoms we have why go after the most important right we have it is no mistake that it was declared our first right because of it's importants.
A good solution may be the option to allow a one time transfer to a server which has very strict regulated rules speech and conduct and BW underline the rules you check the box viola problem is completely solved. There are alot of people who can cope with the chatter and besides if I am going to benefit by having them there i.e running groups or fighting side by side in pvp I don't feel I have the right to control them I barely read chat anyway and If some one says something not vey smart I come back with something witty.
You can scoff at my what I say but we all eventually get bit in the rear by this kind of control in our real life but you only have yourself to blame when you allow your rights to be taken away. We are humans with multiple facets to us no amount of control will ever fix or control that. I for one do not like feeling like I am being smothered in anyway.