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Trying to pick the tank that's right for me

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Trying to pick the tank that's right for me

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
12.04.2012 , 06:19 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by thatPERSON View Post
I'm not a tank but i do know your math is wrong there, when you add another percentage it doesn't add like 50+20=70.
Sometimes you do add percentages but sometimes you don't. It all depends on what mechanism is specifically being buffed.

In the case described, there are actually 4 attributes you have to pay attention to: the Guardian Leap DR buff, the Guard damage transfer, the Taunt damage debuff, and the Guardian Leap target's existing DR. Guardian Leap's DR buff is added to the target's existing DR rather than multiplying through because it's a flat buff to an existing attribute. As such, the 20-30% DR that the target has would get brought up to 40-50% DR for the 6 sec duration. The other attributes (the damage transfer and the damage debuff) would need to be factored in multiplicatively because they're separate mechanisms. As such, assuming the healer referred to is a Scoundrel (25% DR), the sum of those buffs would increase functional DR to 80.75% (1 - (1 - (.25 + .2)) * (1-.5) * (1 - .3)).

Keep in mind that, of those 3 mechanics, only 1 on them is Guardian specific. Without it, functional DR would be 73.75%. That's still an improvement of taking 26% less damage, but it's nowhere near the monumental rewards inferred to when it was brought up, not to mention that it's only up for 6 seconds every 20 seconds whereas the other tank classes simply have 5% damage debuffs that are easily applied and functionally permanent. As such, Guardian Leap is largely a break even with the damage debuffs that the other tank classes get. The only real advantage provided is the mobility gained from ally leaping.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
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Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
12.04.2012 , 06:32 AM | #12
Never liked my pt tank... dind't like it's math, didnt like survival, and my friend healer complained over and over about it... maybe was doing something wrong.
from her perspective, she said, she preffers my jugg in comlumi (now blackhole/dreadguard) over my assassin tank (then full black hole, now pvp dps), since even as sin needs less healing on trash and stuff, Jugg seems easier to heal on bosses fights.
aside from healer perspective, I find jugg more fun to play then assassin, while assassin was far more easy to play.
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RendValor's Avatar


RendValor
12.04.2012 , 09:16 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Most of that isn't true (Guard/Jugg tanks do have the worst threat and Shad/Sins have the best, but it's not for the reasons you indicated).

Shadows actually require the least outside healing of all of the tanks and have the best overall survivability. The only way this isn't true is if said Shadow tank has no idea what they're doing. The issue that many people have is that Shadows have the least stable damage profile. What this means is that damage coming at a Shadow tank will be very spiky but that they will end up needing to be healed the least (which is a combination of their self healing as well as less reliance on DR which always works for def/shield/abs which have chances to work). Also, they've got the best threat not because they've got the best damage; they've got the best threat because they've got good damage *and* have a number of high threat abilities that are used *a lot* to deal a lot of damage (Project gets 15% bonus threat, Slow Time and Force Breach are both high threat abilities).

Guard/Jugg tanks are the de facto worst threat generators and damage dealers. There's no question about it whatsoever. They're also the hardest tanks to get proficient with (Shadows are the hardest to get truly amazing at, but there's a difference between proficient and amazing and you seem to be asking about proficiency more than amazitude) because of said threat generation and the most complex resource maintenance. For survivability, they're actually in the middle of Shadows and VGs: they have a more stable damage profile than Shadows but more overall damage taken and vice versa VGs.

VG/PTs are the simple tanks: they've almost entirely devoted to passive mitigation (meaning you don't have to push buttons to keep yourself alive) and very simple attack priority (I generally call them the faceroll tank because you can really get away with just smashing your keyboard and playing one pretty effectively). Their threat is decent but not amazing (better than Guardian, worse than Shadow) and, for survivability, they'll end up taking the most damage of all of the tanks but have the single most stable damage profile of all of the tanks.

If you're not really looking for something for absolute top tier performance and don't really care too much about learning the ins and outs of tanking, I'd recommend going with a VG/PT tank: it's simple and effective. The only problem with it might be that you find it too boring to play and just get tired of it.
So that's basicly what I said, minus the spam
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
12.04.2012 , 10:37 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by RendValor View Post
So that's basicly what I said, minus the spam
You said that Guardians were the sturdiest, Shadows were the squishiest, and VGs were somewhere in the middle. I said that Shadows required the least healing (i.e. "sturdiest"), VGs required the most, and Guardians were in the middle, with further commentary on how the inverse order is true for the stability of damage profiles (VGs have the most stable, Shadows the least).

The only things we agreed on were that Shadows have amazing threat, Guardians have terrible threat, and VGs are in the middle.

So, no, it wasn't what you said. It was what I said because most of what you said was wrong (concerning mititgation) and left out information (such as the commentary on damage profiles rather than just "sturdiness" as an arbitrary assignation).
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Fallerup's Avatar


Fallerup
12.05.2012 , 07:23 AM | #15
it hasn't been long since I started playing a tank. I'm currently leveling a PT pyrotech now, that I'm gonna try to tank with later, to see how it is. But I must say, the easier one to play of the other 2 for a total noob is the Shadow/assassin, there is no question about it. Perhaps the PT/Vanguard is the easiest of all, but I can't say... yet. But others here have said it is.

and by easy to play, I don't mean master, I mean so it's ok for running hard mode FP's and story mode Ops.

If you ask me, of the 3 tank types, juggernaut/guardian looks most heroic But is hardest to play.

So, quick fix: PT/Vanguard, moderate: Assassin/Shadow, slow: Juggernaut/Guardian

For PvP I absolutely recommend the Juggernaut/Guardian, purely for the mobility and intercede/guardian leap. Huttball isn't the same without one.
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RendValor's Avatar


RendValor
12.05.2012 , 07:28 AM | #16
Well I haven't ran any hard data, I was just going by the numbers I see on the characters screen and my own personal experience. Guardians having defensive abilities - both cooldowns and constant - that absorb all damage period, while Assassins' constant mitigation is just increased shield chance (DW - which doesn't cover Force/Tech attacks) and some self healing (HD which seems very minor), while their defensive cooldowns are very specific depending on which attack you're being hit with.

I however do not notice any major difference when I play my healer between healing Shadows and Guardians (my guild doesn't have any VG tanks) so I guess the difference in survivability really isn't major if you have a competent healer
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grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
12.09.2012 , 07:28 PM | #17
I've got all 3 tanks. My favorite is my Guardian, it just feels the most engaging, I've got lots of abilities to juggle and I can stand toe to toe with anything in the game. AoE threat is a bit tough but I can usually get it done, you do REALLY notice the difference on a Shadow or Vanguard though, like it doesn't even compare. There are definitely fights I look at and think "this would be easier on my Assassin/Shadow" but that doesn't mean a Guardian can't get them done.

Now I loved leveling my Assassin, felt pretty squishy up until I could reliably self heal, but it was fun and fluid. That said, once I hit 40 and got Wither it became a little mind numbing only using 5-7 abilities after having used 12+ on my Guardian. My PT on the other hand rocked up until about 25 thanks to the multiple heavy hitting AoEs. Then things started taking longer to kill at 30 and I pretty much stagnated after finishing chapter 2. Starting with a healer also makes things faceroll easy.

Basically:
If you want to have fun and can learn to handle aggro, roll a Guardian.
If you want to be the best, roll a Shadow.
If you want easy street, roll a Vanguard.

As a last note. A bad Shadow dies, a bad Guardian watches his party die while a bad Vanguard rains mortars on the next group of mobs.
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