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Scoundrel or Sage? Does anyone have a healer of both?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Scoundrel or Sage? Does anyone have a healer of both?

Freeborne's Avatar

11.30.2012 , 12:44 PM | #1
I'm about to level my next class, and I'm really torn between a Scoundrel and a Sage. I will level as healing, and probably deck out HK from the get go.

Has anyone here leveled a sage and a scoundrel for healing? Which do you prefer to use in PvE, and why?
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marvinmiguel's Avatar

11.30.2012 , 12:48 PM | #2
I have the same dilemma but on the imp side! so im very interested on the feedback too! most people were tell me to go operative(scoundrel) for stealth and mobility but i would like more information! thank you for posting this

KevKanos's Avatar

11.30.2012 , 12:59 PM | #3
My Progression Op Group trys to keep one of each for our 8 man runs. I am the main Scoundrel healer. The sage is great for AOE and the pull ability is great for certain situations. I love when we other healer is a sage.

I am a bit biased though and this is all just my opinion but I truly believe that it doesn't get better than a scoundel healer. Their Oh S*** heal is the best around (emergency medpac). When your target is under 30% it costs nothing. They have the best energy management system in the game. I frequently run HM FP not using my main heal at all because I can just hot up everyone and use Emergency Medpac for hard situations and then DPS the rest of the time. They have a stealth CC and then a droid CC with no CD. They have their combat rez but can also stealth away from combat and rez people. I have rez'ed 4 people in one HM EC Kyphess fight before. I find them to be the best utility healer out there and the best single target healer out there. We are perfect for HM Firebrand and Stormcaller being the guy running around the middle.

I have no sage so I can't speak for anything other than what I see out of my sage friends that I heal next to but I think they are better raid full raid healers. keep the Scoundrel on the Tank and the Sage on everyone else with the scoudrel healping when he can.

Cleet_Xia's Avatar

11.30.2012 , 03:46 PM | #4
My main is my sage & my scoudrel is level 25, so I haven't done endgame content yet with the scoundrel.

Thus far, the two are not terribly different in play. The biggest differences are:

1) The scoudrel has a stacking proc that is spent as a secondary resource, which is a little more interesting than the sage conveyance proc that simply reduces the mana cost of most of the other heals. But the sage ability also increases the cost of the most often used heal by decreasing it's channeled length, & thus reducing the passive regen while it is being cast. The scoundrel depends on a long duration proc for boosted regen, that must maintained. While the sage must watch a long duration debuff to maintain effeicient use of mana. If the sage is specced for concentration in the TK tree, resource management is actually very similar between the two, because the sage boosts regen with a stacking Proc that is the same stack size, and duration, as the proc scoundrels spend. ~ so they both can have an ability that must be cast once every 10 seonds to maintain a stacking buff on themselves. However, that's a strange way for a sage healer to spec.

2) The soundrel resource management seems a little more difficult, because the emergengy mana recovery ability has a much longer CD & the smaller pool has a decaying rate of regen, but the sage emergency resource mechanic is actually more complicated to use ~ and less effective for most situations in my opinion. I say this because the sage mechanic requires much more planning and time. And it requires the sage to idle while the regen debuff falls off for it to be effective. For the scoundrel it's click a button ~ for the sage it's a whole series of casts. But if managed correctly the sage can maintain HPS similar to scoundrel with a nearly bottomless resource pool. That being said - it's a very boring way to heal.

3) The scoundrel ~ thus far, has much better dps than my sage ever had. The healing is not quite as strong as my sage was, but not drastically lower. The scourdrel also wears medium armor, so that counts for something, because the need for self healing is reduced.

4) The scoundrel has 2 long cc abilities ~ but 1 only works out of combat from stealth & the other only works on droids. The droid cc has a very short CD - and can be reapplied whenever necessary. This vs. the sage force lift that last 60 seconds, can be applied anytime, and has a 60 second CD. When grouped with a bunch of noobs, it's a little more complicated to coordinate the scoundrel from stealth cc, but the droid cc can be reapplied anytime some dip breaks it. With sage you're just SOL if someone breaks it, and with Scoundrel you're SOL if it's not a droid.

5) The scoundrel AoE attack isn't spammable like the sage Force Quake ~ this is where the sage heal spec dps catches up and balances. The scoundrel AoE is bigger & better used on mixed composition pulls of weaks and strongs ~ while the heal spec sage AoE is just a trash master for burning down large groups of weaks in 10 seconds or less.

6) The scoundrel AoE heal is a little weaker ~ but it sticks with a target instead of to a spot on the ground, it's going to be more effective in situations where the group is moving together. If the group is stationary or regularly collapsing on the boss ~ the sage AoE is probably going to win hands down. This is based on raw numbers & research instead of practice & experience. I'm looking forward to trying this out with my scoundrel!

7) STEALTH ~ this is pretty useful for skipping pulls on an alt. But sage now has a free SELF HEAL after level 18. If you plan on pwer leveling - the scoundrel is probably the better choice for finishing quest objectives without having to kill any extra mobs.

8) Story ~ the scoundrel story thus far is more entertaining imho. But at the end of the day the scoudrel is still just a nerf herder.

9) The scoundrel has a ranged free cast attack that scales with their main stat ~ so you can contribute some dps while recovering mana passively, unlike sages who end up just standing around.

10) The scoundrel cover mechanic ~ you have the option of using it, but it leaves you immobile ~ you probably won't use it in heal spec while grouped, except for a few choice boss encounters. But while leveling solo, there are situations where it's benefit needs to be appreciated.

11) Sage has some of the absolute goofy-est looking gear in the game, but it's followed closely by scoundrel.

12) Scoundrel healing depends on refeshing a stackable HoT to stay above the minimum HPS threshold for content. While sage instead must maintain a single buff from it's HoT & watch a 20 second debuff. Both HoTs have the same duration ~ so both healers have some similarity in the timing of these 2 abilities. While the sage has a second ability that is cast only once every 20 seconds.

TLDR, if you don't manage your procs/ buffs/ debuffs....
Sage blows it's HPS and then goes OOF while trying to catch back up
Scoundrel blows it's resource management causing it's HPS to drop, and then it cant' catch back up

But the procs/ buffs/ debuffs being managed are actually pretty similar, if the sage healer is speced for concentration. Without concentration the only stacking "icon" for sages is from the emergency resource mechanic & the burst ability. The scoundrel is a little more sensitive to interrupts, stuns, & knockbacks, because of the larger number of stacking procs & buffs from abilities.

Since you're talking about using a geared HK-51 from the start- it's kind of irrelevant that the first companion of scoundrels is a ranged tank ~ while the first companion of the sage is a melee tank. And all three companions will compete for the the same comp gifts ~ except HK & Corso both like trophies (if I'm not mistaken about Corso), while Qyzen doesn't.
~Master Telagtun Telag of Lord Calypho~

marvinmiguel's Avatar

11.30.2012 , 11:49 PM | #5
i know this isn't my post but thank you for helping me choose what class to go hope you can decide to Freeborne!

grallmate's Avatar

12.02.2012 , 01:36 AM | #6
I've got both and I don't really like healing on my Sage but I love it on my Scoundrel.

For me the biggest difference is my Scoundrel goes:
HoT x2 on tank -> DPS until I need to heal/refresh HoT and then use EMP for healing.

Sage goes:
Bubble -> AoE -> DPS and then Rejuv -> Healing Trance when healing is required.

For Ops its a bit different and I find my Scoundrel to be much more engaging. I do love having a Sage opposite me though, their AOE just trivializes so much raid damage, while my burst keeps the tanks from dying or saves a DPS who's going down fast. Score: 1 all.

On a side note: stealth is amazing and Stealth CC lets you skip lots of trash in FPs and a few in Ops. Plus being able to get another Combat Res every 2 minutes is handy when running with newer players. Score: Sage 1, Scoundrel 2

Sage story bored me to tears and never really felt fluid. Scoundrel story kept me entertained until the end and had some really awesome moments. Score: Scoundrel 3, Sage 1

Resource management: Sage is a huge resource pool with limited regen. One short fights you can ignore resources but you'll go OOF on longer ones. If you can get used to using Nobel Sacrifice regularly to keep Force up you'll be ok but that burns a few GCDs through the fight. Scoundrel resources are very different. If you manage them well you can keep healing indefinitely, if you don't manage it well you can go OOE in about 15 seconds and never recover.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

marvinmiguel's Avatar

12.02.2012 , 12:56 PM | #7
hehe invading on the thread again :L when in pvp and have multiple targets on you would a sage or scoundrel have a better time surviving?

grallmate's Avatar

12.02.2012 , 02:22 PM | #8
TBH, I haven't PvPed on my Sage since getting the free self heal but I'd still say the Scoundrel.

Lets compare the survivability tools of both classes. Scoundrel has:
- Dodge (avoid Ravage/Ambush and self cleanse)
- Shield Probe
- Spammable free instant heal when < 30% HP
- 2 instant HoTs
- Cover (can't be leaped to or pulled)
- Stealth
- Instant 8s AoE Mezz (60s CD)
- 4s Stun (45-30s CD depending on spec)
- Tendon Blast

Sage has:
- Force Speed + Slow
- Force Wave
- Free self heal on 30s CD
- 1 instant small HoT
- 4s Stun (60s CD)
- 8s Mezz (2s cast time + 60s CD)
- Bubble stun (lets only look at real PvP specs here)

Looking at those lists, you can see that the Scoundrel has more, better tools to survive more people. A good Scoundrel gets into a good spot without being seen and uses cover to keep melee at bay. Once melee are on them they're only real escapes are to stun/mezz and run or to stealth out but the can also kite and heal. Sage on the other hand can Force Wave them away or off a ledge, Force Speed away and slow them or wait for the bubble to stun them and run but they can't heal effectively while moving.

IMO, Scoundrel is more suited to PvP healing. Shorter casts, better/more survivability tools and can heal while moving.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

Cleet_Xia's Avatar

12.02.2012 , 02:24 PM | #9
No toon is going to survive being focussed down in PvP, but scoundrel certainly has better survivability in PvP. If running with a well coordinated team, as a sage healer you end up becoming the 4th node to cap. And it's not unusual for matches to degenerate into "GANK THAT @!#%@# #$% SAGE HEALER"
~Master Telagtun Telag of Lord Calypho~

hunterraaze's Avatar

12.02.2012 , 02:32 PM | #10
PvE, deff Sage. They can put out much larger numbers in healing. And, they have force armor.
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