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DPS Operative : When do I get my buff?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
DPS Operative : When do I get my buff?

Solarenergy's Avatar


Solarenergy
01.02.2013 , 06:51 PM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by Leafy_Bug View Post
There are a few operatives showing that this class is not only dangerous but a monster in the right hands. How many times have I been stabbed almost to death while not getting up? Breaker is not always available and oftentimes resilience and deflection have been used. Once ganked without these three, you can have the best geared assassin, a rightly played operative will tear you a new one
I found out that lag has a lot to do with this. When you find yourself not even being able to fight back or run away and your HP seemed to have disappeared so fast. It's not because ops are so dangerous anymore, it's mostly due to lag not being able to register their character on the screen and make him targetable in time. Their dps is really lacking and I don't think it is enough to kill any kind of tank, assassin or not. Once they use those first two abilities they have, they are pretty much done, and the fight quickly swings out of their favor. That is why you always find them targeting the squishiest of targets, mostly light armor healers and snipers who are basically turrets since they rely on cover and have far less mobility than other classes. Being a good operative these days has a lot to do with choosing the right targets and the right opportunity. They used to scare me, but now it's been quite a while since I've been killed by just one on my healer. Two or more will kill you fast, but two or more of any class can do that.

BlackSpin's Avatar


BlackSpin
01.02.2013 , 06:58 PM | #92
To sum up this thread: Skilled Operative with min/maxed gear = Any other skilled class not trying as hard.

If you are unlucky as an Operative/Scoundrel and do not get crits on the first hidden strike/backstab the fight is very nearly lost, unless the other player really screws up. To depend on crits that much, really sucks...

Zunayson's Avatar


Zunayson
01.02.2013 , 09:19 PM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by BlackSpin View Post
To sum up this thread: Skilled Operative with min/maxed gear = Any other skilled class not trying as hard.

If you are unlucky as an Operative/Scoundrel and do not get crits on the first hidden strike/backstab the fight is very nearly lost, unless the other player really screws up. To depend on crits that much, really sucks...
I rarely lose when i get the opener off 1v1. I have min/maxed WH gear only . The only cds I ever use are Sneak for the speed bonus.
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AdmiralOnasi's Avatar


AdmiralOnasi
01.02.2013 , 09:41 PM | #94
Compared to other classes, DPS Scoundrels have nothing that someone else can't do better, faster, or with less effort.

Burst? 7k AoE Smash and Rail Shot both hit harder with less effort than Shoot First.
Utility? No gap closer. No Knockback. No group buff.
Sustained Damage? Lol.
Survivability? Shield Probe is a total joke. Evasion lasts 4 seconds and has a long CD. Disappearing Act has an even longer CD and you're broken out of stealth if a DoT ticks on you.

The needs a combination of:
-A finisher. The fact that Assassins have one and we don't is BS.
-More damage mitigation OR buff the effectiveness of the CDs.
-Nerf the burst of smash monkeys and Rail Shot fanatics. An attack with positional requirements that can only be used from stealth (and can only be used realistically once in a fight) should hit harder than attacks with short CDs that are part of a natural rotation anyway.
-Better sustained damage.

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
01.02.2013 , 11:48 PM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by AdmiralOnasi View Post
Compared to other classes, DPS Scoundrels have nothing that someone else can't do better, faster, or with less effort.

Burst? 7k AoE Smash and Rail Shot both hit harder with less effort than Shoot First.
I agree with everything else that you said. We have no utility that Shadows don't have, no gap closer worth mentioning, no knock back, no group utility, laughable sustained damage, and god awful survivability.

But then there's burst. Rail Shot and Smash both hit harder on their own, but our opening burst COMBO is stronger. Or at least, it has the potential to hit harder if we get crits. If Shoot First crits (51% chance: 35% base + 16% talent) and Backblast crits (66% chance: 35% base + 16% talent + 15% set bonus), that combined opening burst exceeds that of any other class. Shoot First + FR + Blaster Whip + Sucker Punch + Backblast + FR + Sucker Punch is just so much burst in those first few seconds. If you throw a Dirty Kick in there and they lack their escape, its also completely unanswerable.

That all said, I still agree that the class is majorly underpowered. Smashers and even DPS Sins can come very close to our opening burst combo without a) having to rely on crit chance and b) expending so many resources. I am just trying to look on the bright side of an otherwise dismal situation.
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CJAShadow's Avatar


CJAShadow
01.03.2013 , 03:24 AM | #96
Don't forget the power of Sabo Charge and Quick Shot when the person is running away.

I feel...They could lower the damage a little bit on Shoot First but up its Crit chance to make the class more consistent with other classes burst. The main problem with Smashers is that the class is so consistent and critting and wrecking any defense that a player has, rendering Tanks even more obsolete.

While they tried to help us by giving us a speed boost with sneak, the cooldown outside of stealth just doesnt cut it against roots and pushes and slows. It needs to break those effects when specced correctly and be on a shorter cooldown.

I have started playing my guardian as a Vigilance dps, just for fun. MY GOD is dpsing on that character easy, just rotation and combat focus, I use Guardian Leap cause I get bored of the dps rotation its sooo easy. Scoundrel dps seems to be far and away the hardest to play from my experience and what has been told to me.

I think the only thing that might increase our sustained dps would be a boost to vital shot in conjunction with the middle tree, a great idea I had was:
Tier 4- (in addition to Stopping Power)
Vital Shot now triples in damage when target is below 30%.

People with cleanse can use it and it wont be a problem, but against tanks and some other dps it could actually be the killing blow as they run away. In Operations this would help quite a bit too.
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vimm's Avatar


vimm
01.03.2013 , 07:40 AM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
Operatives actually win a large number of dueling tournaments...

Just sayin'
Healer ops!
geeR
Phantom of the Operative

Labradoraki's Avatar


Labradoraki
01.03.2013 , 07:45 AM | #98
concealment ops are fine, we can take almost 50% of their hp at the first second, yes dmg is weaker after that but the targets health is half, and with the amount of cc and defenses you can
hell if you want to make thinks easier you can stelth and hidden strike him twice after the cd is over xD, pretty deadly

its the lethality ops that need a buff, they dont rely as much in stealth and require you to be out of stealth more which makes you die rly fast since your really squishy

RyanReagan's Avatar


RyanReagan
01.03.2013 , 11:53 AM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by Labradoraki View Post
concealment ops are fine, we can take almost 50% of their hp at the first second, yes dmg is weaker after that but the targets health is half, and with the amount of cc and defenses you can
hell if you want to make thinks easier you can stelth and hidden strike him twice after the cd is over xD, pretty deadly

its the lethality ops that need a buff, they dont rely as much in stealth and require you to be out of stealth more which makes you die rly fast since your really squishy
Who are you fighting that you are taking half their health in 1gcd? Because... No

Another thing is our armor pen doesn't compare at all to powertech's railshot armor pen. And our armor pen is applied by our big opener, so the opener doesn't get the armor pen. Yan of course do something like AB+HS,Shiv,AB+BS,Vanish, AB+HS to get the armor pen on a big hit. But... again the problem with operative dps is "okay then what?" because you got nothing left to dish out after that.

Okay, and for serious, why do I keep having to re-coat the blade? Not that it is a pain or anything.... And maybe I've just not noticed. But does the AB buff disappear from the buff bar after you've applied it? I always just keep track in my head if I don't need to re-apply it. (Go to backstab and can't).
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tatatan's Avatar


tatatan
01.03.2013 , 12:35 PM | #100
+1 Ops playing Juggernaut now. Played pure Lethality from start (even in times when concealment was considered OP). I can do OK in PvE still (thanks to gear) but PvP ... i just given up. Concealment isn't the quite kind of 'my play' and i'm not good healer as it is so boring for me.
As for Lethality, PvP is broken for many reasons. I'd like to see some 'love' for Lethality, but ... It never happend in a year (with exception of 1 small fix). So... let's face the reality and back to Jug...