Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Need your opinion...

Pannther's Avatar


Pannther
11.29.2012 , 03:09 AM | #1
Can somone of the more exp. players answer to that question.
I was reading on the forums and in guides that the Comando is a better single target healer then the Sage but lacks with the AoE Healing .
Ok, i understand that. Further i have read that the people complain that he does not so much healing as the sage. I asume that they are the same levels ( 50 ) and that the players have leveled both and know how to play.
So what i neeed to know is :
is that true ?

I have now leveled a Sage and Trooper to 30 and im done with 1. I will only level 1 to 50 and then start to do fp and gear up. I will not do any pvp and will have no alts. And im not interested in the storyline, so that it does not matter. Btw...i like the playstye of the 2 the same...
What i certainly do not want is to be the weaker healer that noone will have in their group.
So i realy need a honest opinion from you guys.

Stay with the Sage or Trooper ?

NoFishing's Avatar


NoFishing
11.29.2012 , 10:29 AM | #2
I have both, and have healed on both at end-game. Both are very capable, but IMO, the sage is generally stronger/more useful. However there are certain fights where I think I would prefer my commando. I'm not going to delve too deeply into the theory crafting, but I will give my opinions on each class:

Commando
Yes, commandos have very strong single target heals. Between AMP, MP, and BI, a commando can expect to pump out around 15k in healing in about 3 seconds. This means a tank's health bar hitting 10% doesn't need to be a white-knuckle event. Even hammer shot can hit 1000 HPS.

But the AoE can feel a bit weak, since it only hits 4 targets. It will instantly heal for 2-4k every 6 seconds, depending on crits. The sage's AoE will heal those same 4 targets for about 5k in 6s, and since it is a HoT where each tick can crit, it is more consistent in doing that. At that point, the commando has to spend another GCD to AoE again, but the sage's AoE still has 4 seconds to go, making it better in terms of cast time as well.

However, that is assuming the party can/will stand in the sage's AoE for the majority of the time. There are quite a few end-game fights where that isn't always possible. In these cases, the instant quality of kolto bomb with it's relatively short cool-down is more useful.

Note: the commando AoE is an important part of the commando's rotation. I know some commandos have given up on it, but it is another instant heal, ammo efficient, and adds a healing buff to the targets. Good commando healers use it on cool-down...even while they look with envy at the sage's healing puddle.

Commandos have the trickiest energy management of the 3 healers IMO. Get it right, and you are pumping out big heals when needed and keeping the party up. Get it wrong, and you are standing around hammer shotting while the team dies around you. Personally I found this part of being a commando medic to be the most interesting/fun.

Sage:
Just AoE. For 90% of fights that is all you need to do. Lay down the AoE and go get some coffee. Nobody really expects you to do anything else anyway. :-) Ok, I am exaggerating here, but there is an element of truth.

For single targets, sages are basically good at pumping out a near constant stream of heals. Our big main heal, deliverance, has the longest cast time in the game, making it quite bursty, but otherwise we apply a HoT and use our channeled heal and bubble. Burst damage to a tank is a bit more challenging for us to deal with, because our big heal takes so long to cast. We risk the tank dying before we get them a heal depending on debuffs and cool downs. It usually works out ok, but there are definitely moments where that cast bar is not moving quick enough! For this reason, good sages that can predict damage will commonly start casting deliverance before the damage lands. Other sages (still good), fire off the short, expensive heal in this case.

But the AoE more than makes up for this....if 8 people stand in it for 10s, it is up to 50-70k in healing. It also has a relatively short cast time (for sages, anyway), and if placed correctly, can help the raid with positioning, since people have learned to go stand in the "circle of immortality".

On energy, our pool is very deep, allowing us to pump out a lot of heals to deal with "oops" moments, and then get back to a more normal rotation where we can recover. We have the most capacity to deal with that, as long as we haven't ignored our energy up to that point. But we do spend a lot of time cutting our own wrists with noble sacrifice to get a bit of force back, and then healing that damage. I find energy management on the sage to be the least fun aspect of the class, and was the entire reason I gave up healing on my sage between 1.2 and 1.4. It is better in 1.4 though.

And I would be neglectful to not talk about the bubble....it is simply awesome in lots of cases. At end-game, it is about 4k worth of pure damage absorption, with 0 threat generation. That means you can use it cases where drawing agro from adds or the boss could be a problem (first fight in EV, second phase of last boss in TfB, etc) without fear. It also does magical things for the tank that gets force leach on the Dread Guard fight, where you simply cannot use a real heal on them, but they may still have DoTs that can kill them.

The penalty for this is that we have to stand still so much we might as well grow roots. The only things we can cast on the move is a relatively weak HoT (with a cool down) and bubble. If the fight requires a lot of movement, our AoE is basically out. As is our big heal. Fortunately there are not a lot of these, or if there is a lot of movement required, there are still brief periods where the raid will be standing still and can benefit from an AoE. But one example would be the LR-5 fight in LI with melee DPS, which requires a lot of moving around the room. In this case, I claim the middle platform as mine, and nobody is allowed to come near it, while my commando happily follows the party around dropping kolto bombs and quick big heals.

Pannther's Avatar


Pannther
11.29.2012 , 11:43 AM | #3
Ty for your answer. It is verry helpfull for me and i think for allot of the newer players to.

NotRonin's Avatar


NotRonin
11.29.2012 , 07:45 PM | #4
With the same level a gear, a sorc/sage can heal a lot more than the merc due to their AoE hitting 8 people. However, Merc/commando healers have one advantage : they can deal a lot more damage while remaining resource neutral. If you believe that healers shouldn't be DPSing, then you should stick to a sorc/sage.

SgtKlavier's Avatar


SgtKlavier
11.29.2012 , 10:48 PM | #5
Quote:
However, Merc/commando healers have one advantage : they can deal a lot more damage while remaining resource neutral.
That statement is true, but what can be said about dps output over a longer period of time? Curious as to what your thinking is behind that "advantage."

NotRonin's Avatar


NotRonin
11.30.2012 , 12:37 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by SgtKlavier View Post
That statement is true, but what can be said about dps output over a longer period of time? Curious as to what your thinking is behind that "advantage."
The extra damage can compensate for gear/skill deficits in your DPS.

Raiding in our guild is rather casual, and only happens 1-2 times on weekends, so our gearing is a bit slow. Our first clear of HM EC would not be possible without my merc helping with DPS. Back then, my DPS was needed to kill the probe in minesweeper without hitting enrage and I would did over 100K damage over HM Kephess. It's helps with killing the bomber before explosion, with taking down the walker, and with killing the Trandoshan adds before the next spawn.

This is my parse when I'm helping another guild with HM EC, clearing it for the first time.

http://www.torparse.com/a/51705

At 8m 55s, we were very close to enrage, so the 110k I contribution definitely helped.

SgtKlavier's Avatar


SgtKlavier
11.30.2012 , 11:29 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by NotRonin View Post
The extra damage can compensate for gear/skill deficits in your DPS.

Raiding in our guild is rather casual, and only happens 1-2 times on weekends, so our gearing is a bit slow. Our first clear of HM EC would not be possible without my merc helping with DPS. Back then, my DPS was needed to kill the probe in minesweeper without hitting enrage and I would did over 100K damage over HM Kephess. It's helps with killing the bomber before explosion, with taking down the walker, and with killing the Trandoshan adds before the next spawn.

This is my parse when I'm helping another guild with HM EC, clearing it for the first time.

http://www.torparse.com/a/51705

At 8m 55s, we were very close to enrage, so the 110k I contribution definitely helped.
I understand the utility of healer dps; I was interested in how you reasoned that a merc healer would give better dps than a sorc healer.

NotRonin's Avatar


NotRonin
11.30.2012 , 11:59 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by SgtKlavier View Post
I understand the utility of healer dps; I was interested in how you reasoned that a merc healer would give better dps than a sorc healer.
Supercharge gas + power shot is free, thus a merc healer can do better DPS than a sorc while remaining resource neutral.

SgtKlavier's Avatar


SgtKlavier
12.01.2012 , 08:52 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by NotRonin View Post
Supercharge gas + power shot is free, thus a merc healer can do better DPS than a sorc while remaining resource neutral.
Is remaining resource neutral really necessary for a sorc healer during those times though? Phases where the healer would actually be dpsing are not going to be that long, so even dropping say 75% of the sorc resource pool won't affect their healing ability afterwards, as they can easily make up the lost force or simply remain neutral for the rest of the fight. Due to the smaller resource pool, I would say that mercs would have less dps output because you're either going to use only basic attacks or use heat generating abilities very sparingly.

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
12.02.2012 , 06:27 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by SgtKlavier View Post
Is remaining resource neutral really necessary for a sorc healer during those times though? Phases where the healer would actually be dpsing are not going to be that long, so even dropping say 75% of the sorc resource pool won't affect their healing ability afterwards, as they can easily make up the lost force or simply remain neutral for the rest of the fight. Due to the smaller resource pool, I would say that mercs would have less dps output because you're either going to use only basic attacks or use heat generating abilities very sparingly.
I think the point is that Sages lack a free basic attack. Every bit of force they use for DPS they have to make up with NS later, which results in more healing. Mercs have cheaper abilities and much higher (relative) regen. Combined with a free basic attack, TSO and Supercharged Gas they can regen heat while DPSing, something a Sage can't do.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]