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Deserter debuff.


Spectreality's Avatar


Spectreality
11.28.2012 , 12:13 PM | #1
I understand that DDs usually have long queues. I've played plenty of MMOs before and I don't mind waiting in line.

What I do mind is having to deal with petulant tanks and healers that can ruin my group at will. If they choose to have a hissy fit over whatever generally minute gripe they have they can simply drop the group and get another within a matter of minutes. There is no punishment for wasting the time of three other people. As a primarily DD it screws me the most as my queue is longer.

While it is possible to continue questing while waiting for a replacement people simply seem to not want to do this. If the tank leaves the healer is likely soon to follow and vice versa.

I don't play this game because I enjoy being at the mercy of the emotionally stunted. Please implement this relatively simple fix to the situation. Honestly this problem is annoying enough that I am finding myself less interested in your game.

On a related note, please have the queue finder check specs before allowing someone to assign themselves a role. I have had entirely too many issues with people queuing up as a tank/healer in order to gain a group faster only to in fact not be a tank/healer. A deserter debuff would also help to minimize or even erase this problem.

monkgryphon's Avatar


monkgryphon
11.28.2012 , 12:17 PM | #2
This issue exists with or without a group queue system.

You also cannot really just check specs. I have had Sages switch skill specs with the field skill reset droid to be the healer right after the queue popped. They can also be holding onto a second set of gear in their inventory for the alternate spec.

I disagree with the debuff, because it just punishes those who actually have legitimate reasons to leave group. What if the group is harassing 1 player. Should they be punished for wanting to leave?

shadowrouge's Avatar


shadowrouge
11.28.2012 , 12:22 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Spectreality View Post
I understand that DDs usually have long queues. I've played plenty of MMOs before and I don't mind waiting in line.

What I do mind is having to deal with petulant tanks and healers that can ruin my group at will. If they choose to have a hissy fit over whatever generally minute gripe they have they can simply drop the group and get another within a matter of minutes. There is no punishment for wasting the time of three other people. As a primarily DD it screws me the most as my queue is longer.

While it is possible to continue questing while waiting for a replacement people simply seem to not want to do this. If the tank leaves the healer is likely soon to follow and vice versa.

I don't play this game because I enjoy being at the mercy of the emotionally stunted. Please implement this relatively simple fix to the situation. Honestly this problem is annoying enough that I am finding myself less interested in your game.

On a related note, please have the queue finder check specs before allowing someone to assign themselves a role. I have had entirely too many issues with people queuing up as a tank/healer in order to gain a group faster only to in fact not be a tank/healer. A deserter debuff would also help to minimize or even erase this problem.
As a tank I can see your point. I don't drop groups unless there is a very valid reason. The only reason I have ever dropped a group is because I get ticked when I get a group and the DPS thinks they are an awesome hybrid and trys to do the tanking.

If your pugging and have set yourself to DPS don't get in and start every fight before the tank. Don't get pissy when I back off and let you tank and your getting your *** kicked really hard. The DPS job is to kill not control agro and show how awesome you are that you THINK you can do two jobs at once.

If the healer leaves oh well queue up and hope we can get another. But don't be one of those healers that throws one heal here and there but is wasting all your force/ammo/ energy throwing out DPS while the tank is near death and dies over and over because the healer wants to play DPS but get a fast queue. I will leave a group just as fast with a healer doing this.

Again I understand your position. Its valid but you have to understand that there are reasons a tank or healer will dump a group and find another.
Weekend Beta tester 11-11-11/ Thanksgiving tester 11-25-11
http://www.swtor.com/r/XydG2G

DarthTHC's Avatar


DarthTHC
11.28.2012 , 12:33 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Spectreality View Post
I understand that DDs usually have long queues. I've played plenty of MMOs before and I don't mind waiting in line.

What I do mind is having to deal with petulant tanks and healers that can ruin my group at will. If they choose to have a hissy fit over whatever generally minute gripe they have they can simply drop the group and get another within a matter of minutes. There is no punishment for wasting the time of three other people. As a primarily DD it screws me the most as my queue is longer.

While it is possible to continue questing while waiting for a replacement people simply seem to not want to do this. If the tank leaves the healer is likely soon to follow and vice versa.

I don't play this game because I enjoy being at the mercy of the emotionally stunted. Please implement this relatively simple fix to the situation. Honestly this problem is annoying enough that I am finding myself less interested in your game.
As a player who runs exclusively tanks and healers, and who isn't "emotionally stunted" as you put it, the best advice I can offer you is to either learn to play nicely with others or to roll a tank or healer yourself. What I mean by the former is that, as a DPS, your role is to use CC if you have it, don't break CC, kill the right thing only after the tank pulls, roll Need only on things that you can actually use, and accept the pace at which the tank and healer are able and willing to progress through the content.

I cannot begin to count the number of poor performing DPS I've had in my groups that willfully violate these simple goals, even after being reminded of the role they've selected. And yes, I do boot them out if they don't shape up after the first reminder.

Quote:
On a related note, please have the queue finder check specs before allowing someone to assign themselves a role. I have had entirely too many issues with people queuing up as a tank/healer in order to gain a group faster only to in fact not be a tank/healer.
THIS.

Quote:
A deserter debuff would also help to minimize or even erase this problem.
You mean like the one that's already built into the LFG tool?

MillionsKNives's Avatar


MillionsKNives
11.28.2012 , 12:36 PM | #5
Don't they already make you wait 15 minutes if you leave a groupfinder group?

Edit:
Quote: Originally Posted by shadowrouge View Post
As a tank I can see your point. I don't drop groups unless there is a very valid reason. The only reason I have ever dropped a group is because I get ticked when I get a group and the DPS thinks they are an awesome hybrid and trys to do the tanking.

If your pugging and have set yourself to DPS don't get in and start every fight before the tank. Don't get pissy when I back off and let you tank and your getting your *** kicked really hard. The DPS job is to kill not control agro and show how awesome you are that you THINK you can do two jobs at once.

If the healer leaves oh well queue up and hope we can get another. But don't be one of those healers that throws one heal here and there but is wasting all your force/ammo/ energy throwing out DPS while the tank is near death and dies over and over because the healer wants to play DPS but get a fast queue. I will leave a group just as fast with a healer doing this.

Again I understand your position. Its valid but you have to understand that there are reasons a tank or healer will dump a group and find another.
I'd sooner kick the healer and use my companion than deal with an idiot or leave myself. And they'd probably do a better job.

Lium's Avatar


Lium
11.28.2012 , 12:57 PM | #6
Warzones are where they REALLY need a deserter debuff. Leaving early is out of control in there.

Calsetes's Avatar


Calsetes
11.28.2012 , 01:11 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthTHC View Post
As a player who runs exclusively tanks and healers, and who isn't "emotionally stunted" as you put it, the best advice I can offer you is to either learn to play nicely with others or to roll a tank or healer yourself. What I mean by the former is that, as a DPS, your role is to use CC if you have it, don't break CC, kill the right thing only after the tank pulls, roll Need only on things that you can actually use, and accept the pace at which the tank and healer are able and willing to progress through the content.

I cannot begin to count the number of poor performing DPS I've had in my groups that willfully violate these simple goals, even after being reminded of the role they've selected. And yes, I do boot them out if they don't shape up after the first reminder.
It's people like this that make me really happy that I... typically ask if I'm doing alright, or if I can do anything better. If there's droids and it's a Heroic-style mission, I ask if they need me to CC a droid - who knows, if I CC a droid, and the Sage CCs an Engineer / medic, then the group can have a real easy time taking out the stuff.

I actually had a group in a heroic recently that one of the DPS guys (thankfully not me) charge head-long into any group of silver guys without waiting for the tank to go in first, or the healer to CC an enemy, or any of that stuff. Usually resulted in some really close calsl where I had to pull several guys off the Healer. As a DPS, that won't make me last long, but if I die so the healer lives, then it's worth it. Smart use of Force Camo saved my life more times than I can count with that group. Plus, the healer was a friend of mine, and I'm not going to have him die because of some gun-jumping guy.
The average person thinks he isn't.
-Anonymous

DarthTHC's Avatar


DarthTHC
11.28.2012 , 01:15 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Calsetes View Post
It's people like this that make me really happy that I... typically ask if I'm doing alright, or if I can do anything better. If there's droids and it's a Heroic-style mission, I ask if they need me to CC a droid - who knows, if I CC a droid, and the Sage CCs an Engineer / medic, then the group can have a real easy time taking out the stuff.

I actually had a group in a heroic recently that one of the DPS guys (thankfully not me) charge head-long into any group of silver guys without waiting for the tank to go in first, or the healer to CC an enemy, or any of that stuff. Usually resulted in some really close calsl where I had to pull several guys off the Healer. As a DPS, that won't make me last long, but if I die so the healer lives, then it's worth it. Smart use of Force Camo saved my life more times than I can count with that group. Plus, the healer was a friend of mine, and I'm not going to have him die because of some gun-jumping guy.
If you're the type of person to care enough that you're doing alright to ask if you are... you're probably doing alright!

Eillack's Avatar


Eillack
11.28.2012 , 01:21 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by monkgryphon View Post
This issue exists with or without a group queue system.

You also cannot really just check specs. I have had Sages switch skill specs with the field skill reset droid to be the healer right after the queue popped. They can also be holding onto a second set of gear in their inventory for the alternate spec.

I disagree with the debuff, because it just punishes those who actually have legitimate reasons to leave group. What if the group is harassing 1 player. Should they be punished for wanting to leave?

100% agree!
============================
A main point I think should be considered is the fact that people are DC'n a lot more since 1.4 / 1.5...great source of uneeded punishment from that.

I would like to share another, though more tragic reason/example why this is a horrid idea:

Last week I was helping people with FP's and at one point one of the members told us he got a phone call and one of their parents had passed away and obviously had to log off, that person would be punished because of the debuff that the OP proposes.

Monoth's Avatar


Monoth
11.28.2012 , 01:25 PM | #10
I find my companion is usually a better tank then most players so I usually just pull her out if the tank bails, same with DPS and Healers... I wish Que would allow us to fill spots with our companions, would make the Que's go much faster.
F2P is like driving on a long stretch of highway with toll booths every 1/2 mile