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Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Afraid to put their big boy/girl pants on. Fix this please. Peter Pan isn't in SWTOR

DarkSaberMaster's Avatar


DarkSaberMaster
11.30.2012 , 10:02 PM | #271
Quote: Originally Posted by chimex View Post
11. Rules of Conduct

You may violate the Terms of Service if, as determined by EA in its sole discretion, you:

- Post, transmit, promote, or distribute Content that is illegal.
- Harass, threaten, embarrass, spam or do anything else to another player that is unwanted, such as repeatedly sending unwanted messages or making personal attacks or statements about race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc.
- Organize, effectuate or participate in any activity, group, guild that is harmful, abusive, hateful, racially, ethnically, religiously or otherwise offensive, obscene, threatening, bullying, vulgar, sexually explicit, defamatory, infringing, invasive of personal privacy or publicity rights, encourages conduct that would violate a law or in a reasonable person's view, objectionable and/or inappropriate. Hate speech is not tolerated.
- Use abusive, offensive, or defamatory screen names and/or personas.
- Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of EA Services. Disruptive behavior includes but is not limited to conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within an EA Service. Disruptive behavior shall also include, but not be limited to, commercial postings, solicitations and advertisements.
- Disrupt the flow of chat in chat rooms with vulgar language, abusiveness, hitting the return key repeatedly or inputting large images so the screen goes by too fast to read, use of excessive shouting [all caps] in an attempt to disturb other users, "spamming" or flooding [posting repetitive text].
- Impersonate another person (including celebrities), indicate falsely that you are an EA employee or a representative of EA, or attempt to mislead users by indicating that you represent EA or any of EA's partners or affiliates.
- Attempt to get a password, account information, or other private information from anyone else on EA Services.
- Upload any software or Content that you do not own or have permission to freely distribute.
- Violate any additional Rules of Conduct applicable to a specific EA Service that you are using.
- Promote, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or virtual currency/items.
- Upload files that contain a virus, worm, spyware, time bombs, corrupted data or other computer programs that may damage, interfere with or disrupt EA Services.
- Post messages for any purpose other than personal communication, including advertising or promotional messaging, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or other commercial activities.
- Improperly use in-game support or complaint buttons or make false reports to EA staff.
- Use or distribute unauthorized "auto" software programs, "macro" software programs or other "cheat utility" software program or applications.
- Use any game hacking/altering/cheating software or tools.
- Modify or attempt to modify any file or any other part of the EA Service that EA does not specifically authorize you to modify.
- Post or communicate any person's real-world personal information using an EA Service.
- Attempt to interfere with, hack into or decipher any transmissions to or from the servers for an EA Service.
- Use and communicate exploits and/or cheats.
- Attempt to use EA Software on or through any service that is not controlled or authorized by Electronic Arts. Any such use is at your own risk and may subject you to additional or different terms. EA takes no responsibility for your use of EA Software on or through any service that is not controlled by Electronic Arts.
- Interfere with the ability of others to enjoy playing an EA Service or take actions that interfere with or materially increase the cost to provide an EA Service for the enjoyment of all its users.
- Unless expressly authorized by EA, you may not sell, buy, trade or otherwise transfer your Account or any personal access to EA Services, Content or Entitlements, including by use of auction websites.
- You may not conduct any activities that violate the laws of any jurisdiction including but not limited to copyright infringement, trademark infringement, defamation, invasion of privacy, identity theft, hacking, stalking, fraud and the distribution of counterfeit software.
- Post or transmit unsolicited advertising, promotional materials or other forms of solicitation in-game or in the forums.
- Abuse or exploit bugs, undocumented features, design errors or problems in the game.
- “Role–playing” is not an excuse for violating this or any other policy
Aaaaaaand where in this lovely little gem does it say that staying at level 49 is an exploit? Y'all are seriously trying to win a fist fight with spitballs lol. But regardless, it's not going to change anything. If it was so unintended to leave WZ's for any reason, EAware wouldn't have put that little icon to the bottom right side of the screen that says "Leave Warzone". So as I said earlier, go ahead and keep crying on the forums about this. I'm getting plenty of entertainment from reading it lol.
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Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
12.01.2012 , 12:30 AM | #272
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
OMG I'm totally owned. I didn't know EA was the one that developed this game, and not BW. And all this time I've been saying BW's definition of an exploit--because I totally thought they were the developers--when I should have been saying EA's. Damn you and your pwnage!
-.- I don't even know what to say. Whether it's BW or EA, the ToS is what will gett you banned -if- EA or BW wants to ban you. Please stop being a sore loser. Untill BW either fixes it or comments on it, neither one of us can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that Bioware considers the problem an exploit or not. We can "prove" is a logical progression:

1. Does a 49 twink have an advantage over others? (Yes)
2. Is there an option to turn exp off? (No)
3. Is the cycle Participation > Completion > Rewards > Level? (Yes)
4. Are these players using either a bug or a feature to circumnavigate the cycle? (Yes).
5. If players are circumnavigating the intended cycle via a feature that is not -specific- to nor designed for doing so (like turning exp off" than is it not a Design Flaw? (Yes, and I cite the Kaon Under Seige exploit BW ninja fixed).
6. Is it more than likely an exploit then? (Yes.)

Then no matter how stupid or harmless it is, if another player decides to call out something that can reasonable be considered an exploit, than trying to tell them "Bioware doesn't consider it one" requires you have proof of what bioware thinks, which you don't.

Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
That line you bolded... only really works if you can prove it's an exploit. At the moment it's nothing more than opinion, and saying 'well obviously it is an exploit' does not count as proof, or it'd be very easy to prove whatever we want to.

You think it is an abuse- but if it was it would be outlined as an abuse and dealt with when it first surfaced- which btw was pretty much instantly after level 50 queues came out waaaaay back close to the game's start.
It's been shown in another linked thread/post that BW admits it will often not post bugs and abuses for the general populace until it's fixed, especially in anything it considers and exploit. (Disclaimer, I'm not saying BIoware does consider this an exploit.)

Also, problems surface at different times, for different reasons. Reason 1. might be solo (or group, to be fair) who can't take it in the 50 bracket, and use 49 twinks for their "thrills," have become more common as more players are getting sick of 50's imbalance issues. Reason 2. Might be it took someone this long to think about it. Reason 3, augments have made twinking even more powerful (gear/abilities wise) and those are much more recent than launch.

(Again, as a disclaimer I don't really care if people twink, just pointing out no one can 100% prove or disprove what BW believes on this issue til it makes a statement, we have to reason out the problems ourselves and wait.)

Quote: Originally Posted by DarkSaberMaster View Post
Aaaaaaand where in this lovely little gem does it say that staying at level 49 is an exploit? Y'all are seriously trying to win a fist fight with spitballs lol. But regardless, it's not going to change anything. If it was so unintended to leave WZ's for any reason, EAware wouldn't have put that little icon to the bottom right side of the screen that says "Leave Warzone". So as I said earlier, go ahead and keep crying on the forums about this. I'm getting plenty of entertainment from reading it lol.
But it is not unintended for anyone to leave a wz for any reason. There are legitmate reasons to leave a warzone, and to "avoid leveling" is being disputed as a legitimate reason.

Though if I may point out, the post you quote was in response to Smash-Bro, who was trying to arguing only "bugs" in the system are considered exploits. We can see from the ToS that statement is false.




Edit: This is in response to no one.

While I still don't think it's really worth Biowares time, they could do two things:

1. Make medals give a small amount of exp.
2. Kick you from the Wz if you 50 in it.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.01.2012 , 01:40 AM | #273
enough.......
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Seena's Avatar


Seena
12.01.2012 , 08:55 AM | #274
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
enough.......
You are not a forum moderator. You are not a Bioware or EA employee. You have no right (and more importantly no power) to stifle or curtail posting in this thread.

Now, run along and dole out your bravado and bitterness elsewhere.
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Seena's Avatar


Seena
12.01.2012 , 09:03 AM | #275
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
-.-

While I still don't think it's really worth Biowares time, they could do two things:

1. Make medals give a small amount of exp.
2. Kick you from the Wz if you 50 in it.

Obviously it hasn't affected you to any degree. It has affected multiple people in this thread (hence the creation of the thread) - and likely will be a issue that contnues to affect people more and more. (If the pattern on my server continues, which I suspect it will.) I'm glad it hasn't affected you (no sarcasm or acrimony there only sincerity) But it has and is affecting others. It is preventing some lower levels from PvPing (not saying that some people quit and get frustrated FAR too easily - they do imo. BUT they should never do it over someone else's exploit.) - THAT is inexcusable and DEMANDS a fix.

And the "fix" doesn't involve just telling people to move to 50. Some people are altaholics. Some of us are crafters who are maximizing their companion capacity. I'm one of those, as are many in my guild. We all PvP. Most of us focus more on our lower level toons than we do our level 50s. Those who have a 50 and tend to play that 50 obviously wouldn't encounter this issue. But a lot of people don't play that way. And they shouldn't have to deal with this consequences of this exploit because they chose NOT to play that way.

It's interesting how people are -- so jealous of "resources" that they don't want certain things addressed because they feel their agendas are more demanding of said resources. Unfortunate way to go through life imo. (Not saying this of you personally - just an overall impression as I see people rip down others concerns/suggestions).

Personally I hope that activities, born of cheating or exploits, should they affect other's in any way - are always fixed. I hope the myriad issues in PvP can be addressed in a fair and balanced way. I don't feel that my issues are more important than your issues --- and that all issues should receive the same consideration from the devs, who then would triage the appropriate actions to take.

Thank-you for your thoughtful input.
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Astronium's Avatar


Astronium
12.01.2012 , 09:27 AM | #276
" - Abuse or exploit bugs, undocumented features, design errors or problems in the game. "


Right there, in the terms of use, EULA, whatever you want to call it.


This is a design error/ Undocumented feature :P So yes, they are breaching the terms.

Chlomamf's Avatar


Chlomamf
12.01.2012 , 11:12 AM | #277
Well can you blame them? All 50-bracket PvP Is Gear grind, Gear grind, Gear grind and going up against Premades.

'1-49 bracket PvP', '1-49', '49'. They're allowed to stay at level 49 if they want, their choice. If you're getting thrashed by level 49s then tough. It's much like getting thrashed in 50-bracket PvP by Premades. And since it's in the 1-49 Brackets, they're not doing anything wrong. If they don't want to get Exp. from WZs, then fine, that's their choice. Not their fault you're whining about a legitimate feature.

And this isn't an 'undocumented feature', as BW lets them leave the WZ anytime they want, BW lets them get 16K HP in 1-49 Bracket PvP, BW lets them thrash those who have less HP. If BW lets them, then it's not breaking any rules.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
12.01.2012 , 11:22 AM | #278
Quote: Originally Posted by Chlomamf View Post
Well can you blame them? All 50-bracket PvP Is Gear grind, Gear grind, Gear grind and going up against Premades.

'1-49 bracket PvP', '1-49', '49'. They're allowed to stay at level 49 if they want, their choice. If you're getting thrashed by level 49s then tough. It's much like getting thrashed in 50-bracket PvP by Premades. And since it's in the 1-49 Brackets, they're not doing anything wrong. If they don't want to get Exp. from WZs, then fine, that's their choice. Not their fault you're whining about a legitimate feature.

And this isn't an 'undocumented feature', as BW lets them leave the WZ anytime they want, BW lets them get 16K HP in 1-49 Bracket PvP, BW lets them thrash those who have less HP. If BW lets them, then it's not breaking any rules.
The game was designed to give you XP for PVP matches. There was an error in the design that allows you to play the entire match and leave prior to gaining XP. The error is not that you can leave warzones, there are legitimate reasons to do so, but that you can leave warzones simply to avoid XP immediately before it is over.

The ability to have ridiculous amounts of HP due to overgearing your toon is also not a design issue. Essentially, it's fine for people to setup their characters in a way to give them an advantage by following the rules, but to perpetually stay in this state by abusing a tool that is in game (leave warzone) other than for it's intended purpose (having a RL issue that forces you to stop) would be an exploit based on an error in the way XP gained in warzones was designed.
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Seena's Avatar


Seena
12.01.2012 , 11:32 AM | #279
Quote: Originally Posted by Chlomamf View Post
Well can you blame them? All 50-bracket PvP Is Gear grind, Gear grind, Gear grind and going up against Premades.

'1-49 bracket PvP', '1-49', '49'. They're allowed to stay at level 49 if they want, their choice. If you're getting thrashed by level 49s then tough. It's much like getting thrashed in 50-bracket PvP by Premades. And since it's in the 1-49 Brackets, they're not doing anything wrong. If they don't want to get Exp. from WZs, then fine, that's their choice. Not their fault you're whining about a legitimate feature.

And this isn't an 'undocumented feature', as BW lets them leave the WZ anytime they want, BW lets them get 16K HP in 1-49 Bracket PvP, BW lets them thrash those who have less HP. If BW lets them, then it's not breaking any rules.
Yes, I can blame them. No problems at all blaming them. I went through the level 50 gear "grind" - twice. If they don't want to grind let them create another toon and stay in the <49 bracket legitimately instead of selfishly affecting others.

Personally I have no issues with pick up groups - that is imo what PVP (and PvE) is about. Working together as a group to accomplish a goal (ie win). Personally I think complaining about PUGs is lamer than lame. I wouldn't deny anyone that right - and I wouldn't say, "Bioware shouldn't address it" - but I think it's seriously lame.

As for thinking this is "legitimate" well - again... not sure what to say to someone who thinks that way. Other than discretion is (almost) always the better part of valor.
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Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
12.01.2012 , 02:51 PM | #280
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
The game was designed to give you XP for PVP matches. There was an error in the design that allows you to play the entire match and leave prior to gaining XP. The error is not that you can leave warzones, there are legitimate reasons to do so, but that you can leave warzones simply to avoid XP immediately before it is over.
The game was designed to give you rewards if you finish a match. Leaving a match gives you no rewards. Thus, there is nothing wrong with leaving because you get no rewards. All these people complaining about avoid xp would be right in calling it an exploit if players were able to get comms, valor, money, but not the xp. But it doesn't work that way. You get nothing.

Quote:
The ability to have ridiculous amounts of HP due to overgearing your toon is also not a design issue. Essentially, it's fine for people to setup their characters in a way to give them an advantage by following the rules, but to perpetually stay in this state by abusing a tool that is in game (leave warzone) other than for it's intended purpose (having a RL issue that forces you to stop) would be an exploit based on an error in the way XP gained in warzones was designed.
And yet people leave WZs all the time for reasons other than "real life" issues. People leave because they hate the WZ. People leave because they are losing. They leave because they are a backfill. They leave because their teammates are all 15k hp recruit geared. It doesn't matter why they leave. The fact is they can because BW allows them to.

Also, please tell us how you would go about proving that anyone who leaves a WZ isn't doing it for real life reasons and to avoid xp. Unless you can video tape that 49 in person playing, showing that he didn't, in fact, have RL issues, you can't prove it.