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Tanks and/or shield generators are dysfunctional and underpowered at level 40+

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Tanks and/or shield generators are dysfunctional and underpowered at level 40+

CannotDeny's Avatar


CannotDeny
11.28.2012 , 09:19 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_of_Mu View Post
That's mostly because Guardians / Warriors are a little more clunky. We require more defensive stats than Vanguards and we're less effective on aoe trash packs.

The flip side is, we have better cooldowns and more mobility. It would be nice if we could get a talent in the defense tree that allows a portion of our primary stat to add accuracy.
If anything it'd be nice if the top Defensive talent was actually useful in a way.
I agree with the clunky thing. I mean honestly, I see a lot of Guardians/Juggs running around with almost no surge, and that sorta screws up their aggro holding. I fee like I NEED to have at least 65% surge in order to keep most of my threat without having to consistently juggle between taunts.
It does make a difference, on 20% buffed crit

Lord_of_Mu's Avatar


Lord_of_Mu
11.29.2012 , 06:13 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by CannotDeny View Post
If anything it'd be nice if the top Defensive talent was actually useful in a way.
I agree with the clunky thing. I mean honestly, I see a lot of Guardians/Juggs running around with almost no surge, and that sorta screws up their aggro holding. I fee like I NEED to have at least 65% surge in order to keep most of my threat without having to consistently juggle between taunts.
It does make a difference, on 20% buffed crit
I would be one of such guardians. I do have some surge on my gear, but not by any deliberate choice and not for much longer. Rakata enhancements and all that jazz. I recently upgraded from a Guardian hilt 25 to a Might hilt 27, lost 3 endurance, gained more base damage and a lot of strength. I'll switch to a guardian hilt 27 once they become available on the market. The new might hilt added a noticeable threat increase just the same.

I'm more inclined to increase my non-crit damage than focus on burst damage. It tends to leave you more exposed if you're reliant on critical hits to hold threat.

CannotDeny's Avatar


CannotDeny
11.29.2012 , 06:30 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_of_Mu View Post
I would be one of such guardians. I do have some surge on my gear, but not by any deliberate choice and not for much longer. Rakata enhancements and all that jazz. I recently upgraded from a Guardian hilt 25 to a Might hilt 27, lost 3 endurance, gained more base damage and a lot of strength. I'll switch to a guardian hilt 27 once they become available on the market. The new might hilt added a noticeable threat increase just the same.

I'm more inclined to increase my non-crit damage than focus on burst damage. It tends to leave you more exposed if you're reliant on critical hits to hold threat.
Naw, don't really rely on it. It just irks me if I see my crit percent at 50. It feels way too low. Though I have been heavily contemplating just going full tank gear, because I'm still using the Columni implants for the surge/defense bonus while my chest piece is Rakata and it gives some surge as well. There's really no point switching from might to guardian, to be honest. I'd take a small endurance loss over a str gain.

Lord_of_Mu's Avatar


Lord_of_Mu
11.29.2012 , 06:39 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by CannotDeny View Post
Naw, don't really rely on it. It just irks me if I see my crit percent at 50. It feels way too low. Though I have been heavily contemplating just going full tank gear, because I'm still using the Columni implants for the surge/defense bonus while my chest piece is Rakata and it gives some surge as well. There's really no point switching from might to guardian, to be honest. I'd take a small endurance loss over a str gain.
If I was dpsing I'd be bothered. For the most part I care more about raiding my defensive stats. I'm working towards getting 50% shield chance, 50% absorb and 25 to 27% defense. Even augments with defensive stats add a little power and give some extra threat.

I can also toy around with my spec to generate a little more threat if it ever becomes a problem. So far everything has been fine

Malkavier's Avatar


Malkavier
11.29.2012 , 06:41 PM | #25
Part of the problem I noticed with some Jugg tanks, is that they leap in and only focus on one target at a time. What I do on mine: Run forward, throw lightsaber at one target usually standing off to the side, Force Charge in to the grouped NPCs, Smash, and then AoE taunt or single taunt depending on if there was an extra NPC I didn't already tag yet.

I never fail to get aggro using this method.
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Lord_of_Mu's Avatar


Lord_of_Mu
11.29.2012 , 06:57 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Malkavier View Post
Part of the problem I noticed with some Jugg tanks, is that they leap in and only focus on one target at a time. What I do on mine: Run forward, throw lightsaber at one target usually standing off to the side, Force Charge in to the grouped NPCs, Smash, and then AoE taunt or single taunt depending on if there was an extra NPC I didn't already tag yet.

I never fail to get aggro using this method.
It's a problem I've seen with all of the tanking classes, it's really more of a player issue than a class issue. Good old tunnel vision. It's rather odd but I like to use opportune strike as an opener on a strong mob followed by a force sweep if it has weaker mobs standing next to it, I'll then switch to the mob furthest away use saber throw, then switch to a closer mob and use blade. I'm pretty much always moving around and changing targets. Force of habit from countless years of raiding heh

althene's Avatar


althene
11.29.2012 , 07:01 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_of_Mu View Post
If I was dpsing I'd be bothered. For the most part I care more about raiding my defensive stats. I'm working towards getting 50% shield chance, 50% absorb and 25 to 27% defense. Even augments with defensive stats add a little power and give some extra threat.

I can also toy around with my spec to generate a little more threat if it ever becomes a problem. So far everything has been fine
Assuming you're a guardian/juggernaught, I would be immensely shocked if you got to 50% shield and absorb chance as most of your tanking tree revolves around the parry/absorb mechanic of your repost and blade storm/force scream procs. I've been hearing 40% of each is a legitimate target to shoot for and not completely gimp the rest of your stats. And even that winds up with some significant diminishing returns. We're I to do it again seriously (I've since restarted on a new server with a vanguard) I would emphasize defense rating over shield and absorb and milk those procs for all they're worth. Guardians/juggernaugts can be incredibly difficult to hit with high enough defense. The only real threat they have at that point is internal/elemental damage since that bypasses armor and defense. But that's a small price to pay for being, well, a juggernaught in close combat.

As a side note, I don't know if stacking surge is wise either. I know the base crit multiplier is 50%, but without significantly stacking your crit rating, the surge won't really be doing much for you since you wont be critting all that often (10 to 12% maybe?). I was always under the impression that stacking power (after your defense goals were met) was a more viable way to go since it stacks linearly, affects all your abilities, and has no diminishing returns (again talking strictly guardians/juggernaugts)

Lord_of_Mu's Avatar


Lord_of_Mu
11.29.2012 , 07:09 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by althene View Post
Assuming you're a guardian/juggernaught, I would be immensely shocked if you got to 50% shield and absorb chance as most of your tanking tree revolves around the parry/absorb mechanic of your repost and blade storm/force scream procs. I've been hearing 40% of each is a legitimate target to shoot for and not completely gimp the rest of your stats. And even that winds up with some significant diminishing returns. We're I to do it again seriously (I've since restarted on a new server with a vanguard) I would emphasize defense rating over shield and absorb and milk those procs for all they're worth. Guardians/juggernaugts can be incredibly difficult to hit with high enough defense. The only real threat they have at that point is internal/elemental damage since that bypasses armor and defense. But that's a small price to pay for being, well, a juggernaught in close combat.

As a side note, I don't know if stacking surge is wise either. I know the base crit multiplier is 50%, but without significantly stacking your crit rating, the surge won't really be doing much for you since you wont be critting all that often (10 to 12% maybe?). I was always under the impression that stacking power (after your defense goals were met) was a more viable way to go since it stacks linearly, affects all your abilities, and has no diminishing returns (again talking strictly guardians/juggernaugts)
According to a website I've been doing some gearcrafting on, it's quite possible but requires augments and mk 26 mods and enhancements. The trade off is no Accuracy what so ever. But in theory I should have 27% defense, 50% shield and Absorb.

And yes, Str / power really is the way to go.

althene's Avatar


althene
11.29.2012 , 07:17 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_of_Mu View Post
According to a website I've been doing some gearcrafting on, it's quite possible but requires augments and mk 26 mods and enhancements. The trade off is no Accuracy what so ever. But in theory I should have 27% defense, 50% shield and Absorb.

And yes, Str / power really is the way to go.
Ah, that makes sense. I'd taken a break from swtor (the girlfriend likes pandas ) and wasn't familiar with the new mods available. If so, that rather significant, but I'm still more inclined to boost my defense rating until diminishing returns become too prohibitive. Perhaps 30% defense with 45/45 on shield stats. I might have to grind one out to see... if I can pull myself away from my trooper long enough

Lord_of_Mu's Avatar


Lord_of_Mu
11.29.2012 , 07:26 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by althene View Post
Ah, that makes sense. I'd taken a break from swtor (the girlfriend likes pandas ) and wasn't familiar with the new mods available. If so, that rather significant, but I'm still more inclined to boost my defense rating until diminishing returns become too prohibitive. Perhaps 30% defense with 45/45 on shield stats. I might have to grind one out to see... if I can pull myself away from my trooper long enough
With ability buffs I'd get to 30% defense, plus I can switch my relic across to a defense on use relic. Which could put me at a crazy level of defense.

I'm looking forward to completing the upgrade. I just need to learn one more enhancement.