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How to fix Boss skipping


mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
11.28.2012 , 12:06 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Making Molecular Stabilizers as common as you seem to want them is a small step below simply providing anyone and everyone with full 63 gear as soon as they hit 50 (which it would be entirely possible to do for alts with the glut of stabilizers or for anyone that knows how to play the market a bit). Sure, *some* people would love it, but it makes gear progression a non-issue and takes away any kind of real sense of achievement from acquiring gear. I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of welfare epics for entry level 50s, but I definitely oppose it when said welfare epics are BiS or damned near close to it.
I'll agree. I got my agent operative healer to 50 less than a week ago, except for belt, bracers, relic and ear she was rakata (weapon barrels and implants) and the rest campaign/black hole and fully augmented within 2 hours. She hasn't set foot in a operation, but I do not feel quilty because her sawbones sister on the republic side has been in enough for the both of them, so my agent got my sawbones hand me downs.

Now she just needs 1 realic, a belt and our imp guild to get another tank to 50 and she will be in her share of ops.

Plus there are more than enough Molecular Stabilizers now, provided your guild does their weekly ops.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
11.28.2012 , 12:13 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
It's not leveling the field when you're turning what is, nominally, a valuable commodity, into something that anyone and everyone has in abundance,<..........>
Rather have that than a select minority group of people practically having a monopoly on a resource that all others use. Raids should not be the main (practically sole, as it is now) source of one of the most sought-after crafting components. Economy should not be so dependent on Operations.

That said, I indeed do not think that making them drop off HM FP bosses is the best solution. Craft boxes buyable with crystals definitely is a step in the right direction, though.
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uniz's Avatar


uniz
11.28.2012 , 12:21 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by turjake View Post
How to fix boss skipping? Easy. Second that works with bosses would be a door that opens when the boss is killed. Thats how they do it elsewhere.
totally agree here. design instance mechanics that require their killing to progress further on. the more established mmo makers have had this for some time.

a similar idea is to make them part of the quest itself. much like the h4 bh quest.

or make each boss drop the bh coms and have the daily reduced to one or two.

the root of the problem is with the bh coms in how they are earned and the process of instance progression. if you change any one of the two, the solution to skipping is rather simple to solve.

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
11.28.2012 , 12:47 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Rather have that than a select minority group of people practically having a monopoly on a resource that all others use. Raids should not be the main (practically sole, as it is now) source of one of the most sought-after crafting components. Economy should not be so dependent on Operations.

That said, I indeed do not think that making them drop off HM FP bosses is the best solution. Craft boxes buyable with crystals definitely is a step in the right direction, though.
The gear in question is only necessary for operations, so it makes sense for the majority of drops to come from those.

But more to the point, operations are not the only source of these. If you have the right crew skills, you get 4 stabilizers from reverse engineering every moddable black hole piece. You don't need to run an operation to buy those. Can get a two pack in 2 days from running space missions.

Why you would need this stuff if you do not run operations is anybody's guess though.

GalaxyStrong's Avatar


GalaxyStrong
11.28.2012 , 01:09 PM | #25
OK, so stabilizer's is maybe a bad idea (seems very controversial). What other kind of incentive should be awarded for boss battles? No, one should be forced to do anything boss battles or whatever but, if we could create an incentive for high lvl character to kill bosses it would really help the under lvl 50 characters to lvl faster and gear up faster. The crystals could be the answer but, the verdict isn't out yet.
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
11.28.2012 , 01:19 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Rather have that than a select minority group of people practically having a monopoly on a resource that all others use.
People that run Ops have a functional monopoly on the *use* of said mats (since the only way to get the 63 grade schematics is to RE it) and, unless you didn't actually fully read my first post of this threat wherein I described all of the ways to get stabs, you'd see that it's not simply Ops that provide you with them. You can get them by doing Space Missions or by REing Black Hole gear. It's arguably more more time efficient and provides you with more over the course of a week to do your Space Missions every day, and that is *explicitly* solo content.

I'd also have to wonder how you define "select minority" as "people that can do TfB and/or EC". It's not really a select minority. There are pugs going pretty much every night (at least on my server) doing SM TfB and EC, both of which provide Molecular Stabilizers, not to mention that the gear requirement to do TfB and EC are low enough (full Columi, which is on par with HM KP/EV) and the mechanics themselves have largely been nerfed sufficiently (in the case of EC) that the only way you *can't* do EC or TfB is if you *won't* do EC or TfB.

I'm not even sure I can understand your justification in saying that everyone should have equal access to all mats at all times. There *should* be some advantages to actually doing end game content (re: better gear). By providing Molecular Stabilizers in content that is, functionally, entry level end game content (since you don't even have to gear up to get into HM FPs any more), you're pretty much saying that doing *any* content while at 50 should provide you with access to the absolute best gear available, which simply makes no sense (unless you're the type of person that simply expects to be handed the best gear rather than just the gear needed to actually begin progression).
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
11.28.2012 , 01:44 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by GalaxyStrong View Post
What other kind of incentive should be awarded for boss battles?
The problem with providing incentives that would entice people in top tier gear is that you have to deal with the fact that the resources that top tier geared players actually care about are resources that are restricted on a per day or per week basis. Even if the developers added something like a new option to specifically buy grade 8 material boxes with columi or tionese comms or tionese crystals, you'd still run into the issue of being able to run said content ad infinitum and break the nominal per day and per week limitations that exist for every other source of stabilizers. If you addressed this problem by making the cost of said boxes so high that it wouldn't really be an efficient use of your time to simply farm the bosses to gain the mats to buy the boxes, you'd then have to deal with the problem that people would still want to skip bosses because it's not an efficient use of time. You either screw up the economy and gear progression or you don't address the problem you were attempting to solve.

The only real tweak that I could imagine would be to add a bonus mission to the daily HM FP mission to kill 4 FP bosses or minibosses that provides you with a minor additional benefit (a box containing 2-3 BH comms and a lowish chance at a grade 8 crafting material). Making it a bonus mission attached to a daily mission means that it can't be repeated more than once each day and providing a static benefit that is somewhat useful but not overly so (since BH gear is no longer the bestest gear) along with a chance at something really useful (the grade 8 crafting mat) means that people would actually be willing to do it.
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Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
11.28.2012 , 02:01 PM | #28
If BW truly felt that skipping bosses was a problem, then the mission objectives would update to killing the next boss and you could not progress without doing so. Since this is not the case, I think it is up to the group to decide what they want to do.
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Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
11.28.2012 , 02:14 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by GalaxyStrong View Post
OK, so stabilizer's is maybe a bad idea (seems very controversial). What other kind of incentive should be awarded for boss battles? No, one should be forced to do anything boss battles or whatever but, if we could create an incentive for high lvl character to kill bosses it would really help the under lvl 50 characters to lvl faster and gear up faster. The crystals could be the answer but, the verdict isn't out yet.
The minimum I can think of that would compel overgeared groups to kill skippable sub-bosses is if each dropped a single black hole comm. And actually, that might be enough for people to stop laughing at the price of Hazmat implants (if those are still 200 or whatever it was).

But if you did that, you'd need to put some sort of restrictions on how many HMFPs can be done per day, or else, the new way to gear up would be to hit 50 just chain grind something like Black Talon until your toon is at 1.4 BiS right out of the gate.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
11.28.2012 , 02:29 PM | #30
How about more credits?

TfB trash drops good credits -- I thought that was a step in the right direction.

If you have plenty of credits, skip away. Otherwise, kill'em for money. Would be more fun than dailies ...