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Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

mefit's Avatar


mefit
11.28.2012 , 01:13 PM | #201
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Yes she is. She basically orchestrated the events of KOTOR II.
Yep, yet she still stopped them from killing her. How? Through manipulation
Fear , Kreia is not weak or even Average as she displayed in the game . Shes not a small potato and you get that all through the game .
If at anypoint in the begining anyone charged at her , she would likely put them down fast .
I mean it wasn't secret that she considered everyone but Exile to be weak .
She tried to make Exile think like her and how she made Revan think when he finally became Darth Revan.
As he killed anyone he considered Too Weak for his Empire .
Or atleast this is MY OWN OPINION why I think he thought that way . Kreia must be the reason Revan thinks the way he does , but I do not think its because she controlled him . I think its just his perspective on how viewed her and how those lessons were worthy in his head .

Kreia is not weak , even 1vs1 it would not be a easy battle or atleast from what I think . We have no clue what defenses Revan had against the Skills and Abilities Kreia had and I would be assuming too much to say outright he could . All I have for Revan in this 1vs1 is hes adaptive and studied her .................and her own admittence to him being more than her while he was a Jedi Knight . How and why remains a unknown or lacking of what is known .

Lastly we are talking about Jedi Knight Revan , not fully rip off my best friends Jaw Darth Revan who is a war Vet and in his Prime .
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.28.2012 , 02:00 PM | #202
Quote: Originally Posted by mefit View Post
Fear , Kreia is not weak or even Average as she displayed in the game . Shes not a small potato and you get that all through the game .
If at anypoint in the begining anyone charged at her , she would likely put them down fast .
I mean it wasn't secret that she considered everyone but Exile to be weak .
She tried to make Exile think like her and how she made Revan think when he finally became Darth Revan.
As he killed anyone he considered Too Weak for his Empire .
Or atleast this is MY OWN OPINION why I think he thought that way . Kreia must be the reason Revan thinks the way he does , but I do not think its because she controlled him . I think its just his perspective on how viewed her and how those lessons were worthy in his head .

Kreia is not weak , even 1vs1 it would not be a easy battle or atleast from what I think . We have no clue what defenses Revan had against the Skills and Abilities Kreia had and I would be assuming too much to say outright he could . All I have for Revan in this 1vs1 is hes adaptive and studied her .................and her own admittence to him being more than her while he was a Jedi Knight . How and why remains a unknown or lacking of what is known .

Lastly we are talking about Jedi Knight Revan , not fully rip off my best friends Jaw Darth Revan who is a war Vet and in his Prime .
I agree, fear is a big factor. But that is a form of manipulation.

As for the overall debate, I agree with Aurbere. While Revan is capable of destroying Traya's fleet. He is incapable of breaching her stronghold. In many ways it has become a superweapon, but only because through Traya's genius it was forged as so.

Oh, and congratulations everyone - this debate did not erupt into a flame war despite being about Revan. You all recieve a virtual cookie, a pat on the back, and an internet commendation! (apart from Rayla and Aurbere who abadoned the beloved Traya as soon as she lost her capital ship - OK, Aurbere came back so he gets a virtual cookie. But no commendation, you have forfeited the chance to purchase ridiculous pets and flying jawas!)

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.28.2012 , 02:03 PM | #203
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I agree, fear is a big factor. But that is a form of manipulation.

As for the overall debate, I agree with Aurbere. While Revan is capable of destroying Traya's fleet. He is incapable of breaching her stronghold. In many ways it has become a superweapon, but only because through Traya's genius it was forged as so.

Oh, and congratulations everyone - this debate did not erupt into a flame war despite being about Revan. You all recieve a virtual cookie, a pat on the back, and an internet commendation! (apart from Rayla and Aurbere who abadoned the beloved Traya as soon as she lost her capital ship - OK, Aurbere came back so he gets a virtual cookie. But no commendation, you have forfeited the chance to purchase ridiculous pets and flying jawas!)
I'll admit, I was demoralized at the loss of the Ravager, but such things are necessary to test our resolve. After revisiting my earlier point, I have reaffirmed my position. My devotion to Traya grows stronger!
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.28.2012 , 03:44 PM | #204
I just can't believe that it has to come down to this one-on-one duel. In nearly any other scenario Revan wins.

I'd like to point out one thing: you say that the Trayus Acadamy survived the MSG. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Trayus Acadamy wouldn't have even been intact at this point. So we can't say that it would survive bombardments (which you claim is impossible).

Let's go back to my scenario ('cause I'm too stubborn to give up):
Revan has blockaded Malachor, he's starved and killed most of Traya's soldiers. What's he gonna do next? Well he's gonna send some ships in for bombardment. IF they're too close to do so, then they'll be sucked into the planet. What does that do? It destroys life of Malachor does it not? If this happens, Revan will use his ships (and he'll have them programed with droids - he's good with droids) and guide them into Malachor. And he's got plenty spare ships to do so with.

Whatever happens, 80% (that's generous) of Traya's forces will be toast at this point. And Revan will still possess most of his soldiers, and Jedi.

But yeah. Beni: if this fight HAS to end up with Traya vs Revan one-on-one on Malachor, then Revan loses. I just feel that it's unfair to assume that this HAS to happen. Revan has other options and possibilities.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.28.2012 , 03:59 PM | #205
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
I just can't believe that it has to come down to this one-on-one duel. In nearly any other scenario Revan wins.

I'd like to point out one thing: you say that the Trayus Acadamy survived the MSG. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Trayus Acadamy wouldn't have even been intact at this point. So we can't say that it would survive bombardments (which you claim is impossible).

Let's go back to my scenario ('cause I'm too stubborn to give up):
Revan has blockaded Malachor, he's starved and killed most of Traya's soldiers. What's he gonna do next? Well he's gonna send some ships in for bombardment. IF they're too close to do so, then they'll be sucked into the planet. What does that do? It destroys life of Malachor does it not? If this happens, Revan will use his ships (and he'll have them programed with droids - he's good with droids) and guide them into Malachor. And he's got plenty spare ships to do so with.

Whatever happens, 80% (that's generous) of Traya's forces will be toast at this point. And Revan will still possess most of his soldiers, and Jedi.

But yeah. Beni: if this fight HAS to end up with Traya vs Revan one-on-one on Malachor, then Revan loses. I just feel that it's unfair to assume that this HAS to happen. Revan has other options and possibilities.
The gravity well of Malachor is very powerful. Combine that with electrical storms and we have ourselves a no-fly zone.

The Trayus Academy is tougher than you think. It survived the MSG and remained mostly intact. It's in the perfect place to thwart attacks.

If Revan sends in all of his troops, they all die. If Revan goes alone, he dies. Malachor is a death trap for those who walk its surface. Not only that, but Traya will have assassins and traps lying in wait for him. By the time Revan reaches the Academy, his forces are depleted. He'll go in there with nowhere near enough forces to take the Trayus Academy. Now if they all became Wounds in the Force, his chances are pretty good, but they aren't wounds in the Force. Which means Revan's chances of even getting to Traya are low.

If Revan does make it to the Trayus Core, not only is he outmatched, but he's also tired. His defenses drained by Malachor itself. Traya wins a sound victory.

Oh and Beni said no bombardments so Revan just can't blow Malachor away.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.28.2012 , 04:10 PM | #206
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
The gravity well of Malachor is very powerful. Combine that with electrical storms and we have ourselves a no-fly zone.

The Trayus Academy is tougher than you think. It survived the MSG and remained mostly intact. It's in the perfect place to thwart attacks.

If Revan sends in all of his troops, they all die. If Revan goes alone, he dies. Malachor is a death trap for those who walk its surface. Not only that, but Traya will have assassins and traps lying in wait for him. By the time Revan reaches the Academy, his forces are depleted. He'll go in there with nowhere near enough forces to take the Trayus Academy. Now if they all became Wounds in the Force, his chances are pretty good, but they aren't wounds in the Force. Which means Revan's chances of even getting to Traya are low.

If Revan does make it to the Trayus Core, not only is he outmatched, but he's also tired. His defenses drained by Malachor itself. Traya wins a sound victory.

Oh and Beni said no bombardments so Revan just can't blow Malachor away.
Screw Malachor V. Screw it. Most. Freaking. Impossible. Battle. Ever. You basically can't win unless you're a wound in the force, or if your EU Luke Skywalker.

Well it's been a good debate. I did my best, as did we all. But in the end MALACHOR V!

Beni: could I haves a losers bracket or something for this Kaggath serie?. This fight was impossible to win, so I feel Revan deserves a second chance at a opponent that is.. well... you know.. NOT IMPOSSIBLE!!!

I kid. Well... sort of. I won't deny that I'm kinda pissed things turned out the way they did.

*sends prayer to Revan god to forgive him of his failure* I tried. I tried so hard.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.28.2012 , 04:14 PM | #207
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Screw Malachor V. Screw it. Most. Freaking. Impossible. Battle. Ever. You basically can't win unless you're a wound in the force, or if your EU Luke Skywalker.

Well it's been a good debate. I did my best, as did we all. But in the end MALACHOR V!

Beni: could I haves a losers bracket or something for this Kaggath serie?. This fight was impossible to win, so I feel Revan deserves a second chance at a opponent that is.. well... you know.. NOT IMPOSSIBLE!!!

I kid. Well... sort of. I won't deny that I'm kinda pissed things turned out the way they did.

*sends prayer to Revan god to forgive him of his failure* I tried. I tried so hard.
Well how do you think the PT Jedi felt. Palpatine held all the cards as well. Victory was impossible for them too.

Same thing here. Malachor is a weapon as much as it is a planet. Traya holds all the cards once the battle reaches Malachor.

A losers bracket would be interesting to see. Maybe once all of the Kaggath ideas Beni has are all done, we can see a winners and losers bracket? That would be cool.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
11.28.2012 , 04:54 PM | #208
I'm confused.

Does Traya have any offense?

Aka, why does Revan have to come to her? Revan can't go to Malachor and Traya can't leave, so why is everyone saying Revan HAS to go to Traya? Why not the other way around?

Revan can't win without losing, but neither can Traya.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.28.2012 , 05:00 PM | #209
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
I'm confused.

Does Traya have any offense?

Aka, why does Revan have to come to her? Revan can't go to Malachor and Traya can't leave, so why is everyone saying Revan HAS to go to Traya? Why not the other way around?

Revan can't win without losing, but neither can Traya.
He has to go to Malachor because Beni says so.

But I would agree with him to an extent. It is likely that Revan would end up being having to attack Malachor V. Or, you know, he could just leave and wait for her to come out. But there are endless scenarios for what could happen there, so I would rather not get into it. I just don't see Traya leaving her stronghold.

WAIT! Couldn't this end in a stalemate? Revan is too clever to attack Malachor, and Traya is too clever to leave Malachor. I vote for a stalemate!

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
11.28.2012 , 05:02 PM | #210
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
WAIT! Couldn't this end in a stalemate? Revan is too clever to attack Malachor, and Traya is too clever to leave Malachor. I vote for a stalemate!
Exactly.