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Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

lokdron's Avatar


lokdron
11.27.2012 , 02:22 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I like how he listed Nihilus as a superweapon. That made me chuckle
Well he is a superweapon he is pretty much a moving black hole.
You have seen it, you have felt it within you as you have traveled with me. The growing anger, the rage, and the power it brings. Yet the power does not build without struggle. Through small cruelties greater ones are born. Kriea/Darth Traya
Dark side eye topic make your voice heard if you want canon movie sith eyes!

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.27.2012 , 02:29 PM | #12
Malachor V aside, I feel that Revan has the upper hand.

When it comes to tech and pure manpower, Revan has the edge. Traya just doesn't seem to be any good at open warfare. Granted she would end up making a plan to use her assassins and such, but if a legit battle was ever necessary, chances are she lose badly. She is very dependant on the force.

Back to the size of their armies. I am know pretty sure that Revan's army would indeed outnumber Traya's significantly. This makes since due to the style of warfare that Nihilius fights during KOTOR 2. His army is lurking in the shadows and all that stuff. Revan was battling the Sith in an all-out war. It seems that Revan's army would be much bigger. On top of this (like I said earlier), Revan is a better tactician when it comes down to battles and stuff. Kreia is a plotter. While I'm sure she could hold her own in a battle, she'd be hard-pressed to beat Revan. Because of this, she'd have to use different tactics. Options win wars, and Traya doesn't have really have the option to engage in a all-out battle with Revan.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.27.2012 , 02:35 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I like how he listed Nihilus as a superweapon. That made me chuckle
I knew it would.
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Darth Traya wins. Revan's biggest advantage in this battle is the Republic fleet. But just like we saw with the Harbinger, Sith Assassins can neutralize that advantage with ease. This forces Revan to mobilize troops for an attack on Malachor V, where they would be utterly crushed. Whether the Jedi there are killed by the Sith or turned by Malachor's dark energies, Revan would lose. And then, Traya turns Revan to the Dark Side.

Traya wins a sound victory.
While Traya could certainly use this as an effective tactic, the element of surprise is important. In the events of KOTOR 2 the Harbinger encountered a seemingly abandoned vessel and boarded it. Not only would this not happen in the heat of battle, but it could only happen once - Revan would not make the same mistake twice. Boarding parties are the only way, and then the Republic would know they where coming and be prepared. Still, invisible assassins remain deadly whether expected or not. They lose the element of surprise though.

Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Another question: Aurbere implied in his point that Traya's base would be Malachor. What do we do here? Would Malachor V be as it was DURING the Mandalorion Wars, or after? This definately needs to be addressed.
Good question. Like Aubere said, whether its before MSG or after it is still a nexus of dark side energy. But I'd say post-Mandalorian Wars seeing as this was the Malachor in Traya's possession. So this means a fleet battle above it would be difficult/impossible as the instable gravity would make it too dangerous. In this sense if Kreia never left Malachor, Revan would have to come and face her alone. So I advise you consider the outcome of a 1v1 fight - as it could very well come down to this. (And seeing as this is LS Revan - well as light as you can get - he would have no knowledge of Malachor, seeing as the planet begun his fall...)

And just to clarify, Meetra, Malak, Saul Karath, Nihilus and Sion are excluded from this battle. You've probably seen it already but just making sure. This rule applies to all future Kaggath threads so bear in mind if the figure is fairly prominent, most likely it will be excluded from the battle.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
11.27.2012 , 02:46 PM | #14
Traya wins space battle and strategy wise.



Revan wins one on one. She herself has practically stated this.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.27.2012 , 02:51 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I knew it would.

While Traya could certainly use this as an effective tactic, the element of surprise is important. In the events of KOTOR 2 the Harbinger encountered a seemingly abandoned vessel and boarded it. Not only would this not happen in the heat of battle, but it could only happen once - Revan would not make the same mistake twice. Boarding parties are the only way, and then the Republic would know they where coming and be prepared. Still, invisible assassins remain deadly whether expected or not. They lose the element of surprise though.

Good question. Like Aubere said, whether its before MSG or after it is still a nexus of dark side energy. But I'd say post-Mandalorian Wars seeing as this was the Malachor in Traya's possession. So this means a fleet battle above it would be difficult/impossible as the instable gravity would make it too dangerous. In this sense if Kreia never left Malachor, Revan would have to come and face her alone. So I advise you consider the outcome of a 1v1 fight - as it could very well come down to this. (And seeing as this is LS Revan - well as light as you can get - he would have no knowledge of Malachor, seeing as the planet begun his fall...)

And just to clarify, Meetra, Malak, Saul Karath, Nihilus and Sion are excluded from this battle. You've probably seen it already but just making sure. This rule applies to all future Kaggath threads so bear in mind if the figure is fairly prominent, most likely it will be excluded from the battle.
I'm sure Traya could utilize her assassins in other ways. Sneaking them aboard Republic shuttles bound for capital ships. The utility these assassins have is great. And know that while the element of surprise would be lost after one or two instances of assassin encounters, that is an advantage in itself. Knowing that there are assassins lurking does more damage than the assassins themselves would do. Paranoia, sleep depravation, and other things would occur if they know Traya has assassins to use against them. This causes a whole host of problems for the Republic. Suddenly, you don't know what to do, you can almost feel them standing behind (even though they aren't really there). That alone can lead to Revan losing.

Traya, wise as she is, will no doubt make use of Malachor V to prevent Revan from fully defeating her. If Revan attempted to engage her at the Trayus Core, he would fall to the Dark Side. The Dark energies of Malachor, combined with Traya manipulating him, would cause him to join her, or even take control of Traya's forces. This gives Traya the victory.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

mefit's Avatar


mefit
11.27.2012 , 02:52 PM | #16
Woot Aurbere's "Revan is the worst weakest Hero of all time" and Masterme the defender !

Revan wins clearly.

Darth Traya was not that Powerful compaired to her Apprentices , not more powerful than certainly Nihilus , not of Sion , not of The Exile Meetra Surik , and not of Revan Period,

She was "A" Master of Revan and she was linked as such when she arrived at Macachor V , not because she was better . You have to remember they all though Revan was either dead or gone , at the time they were looking for someone of his level to lead them .
Exile if she was evil and arrived before Traya would have been that person .
******We have to remember She was a Jedi Master to him , which if you read his lore he had many . She did open his eyes unlike the others and gave him the type of thinking that we seen him have in "FOUNDRY" , but over all being someones Master as a Jedi is nothing on the page of being someones Master as a Sith or Darkjedi .......AND YOU KNOW THIS MANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN !******
Darth Traya is clearly not a WEAK or just Average Force User but in this , on a battle field of just the two . Revan would likely make her a freak like he did Malek .

She was a twister , a person who came in and tried to get in your head to show you what she see and how she want you to see it . Her Training to Revan is recordedly not of skills or powers but how the outlook of the Force and how he should think of those below him .
If you read all of Revan's lore in KotoR I and II , she taught him that the weaker were unworthy to live . He often displayed that when he would either convert a Jedi or kill them .

She practically worshiped Revan and everything he was and the only person compairable in her eyes was the Exile Meetra Surik . It is highly Doubtful with Darth Traya's way of thinking that she would of put Revan on such a Pedestal if he was weaker than her .
I know shes not really a Sithlord but most Sithlords do not like beings weaker than them , most do not respect Apprentices that are unable to kill them one day .

So in the end this thread is highly likely again underrate Revan and put him below every Forceuser of his time by the large population of Revan Haters .
Darth Mefit
Sith Marauder
Chiss
Shadowlands Server

mefit's Avatar


mefit
11.27.2012 , 02:56 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by BrandonSM View Post
Traya wins space battle and strategy wise.



Revan wins one on one. She herself has practically stated this.
I need medical mental help after reading this , it seems BrandonSM is becoming Moddest and giving a perspective I never knew of him to ever say or I could imagine him to ever say since the begining of these forums and me and him posting in them .

I think my eyeballs bursted out my head BrandonSM, I hope you're happy
Darth Mefit
Sith Marauder
Chiss
Shadowlands Server

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
11.27.2012 , 02:59 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by mefit View Post
Woot Aurbere's "Revan is the worst weakest Hero of all time" and Masterme the defender !

Revan wins clearly.

Darth Traya was not that Powerful compaired to her Apprentices , not more powerful than certainly Nihilus , not of Sion , not of The Exile Meetra Surik , and not of Revan Period,

She was "A" Master of Revan and she was linked as such when she arrived at Macachor V , not because she was better . You have to remember they all though Revan was either dead or gone , at the time they were looking for someone of his level to lead them .
Exile if she was evil and arrived before Traya would have been that person .

Darth Traya is clearly not a WEAK or just Average Force User but in this , on a battle field of just the two . Revan would likely make her a freak like he did Malek .

She was a twister , a person who came in and tried to get in your head to show you what she see and how she want you to see it . Her Training to Revan is recordedly not of skills or powers but how the outlook of the Force and how he should think of those below him .
If you read all of Revan's lore in KotoR I and II , she taught him that the weaker were unworthy to live . He often displayed that when he would either convert a Jedi or kill them .

She practically worshiped Revan and everything he was and the only person compairable in her eyes was the Exile Meetra Surik . It is highly Doubtful with Darth Traya's way of thinking that she would of put Revan on such a Pedestal if he was weaker than her .
I know shes not really a Sithlord but most Sithlords do not like beings weaker than them , most do not respect Apprentices that are unable to kill them one day .

So in the end this thread is highly likely again underrate Revan and put him below every Forceuser of his time by the large population of Revan Haters .
Traya beats Revan in space battle.




I swear you come to every thread and disagree with whatever Aurbere or Rayla says. Calling them Luke Fanboys or whatever even though they give clear facts.



Benboiling(Butchered the spelling) at least argues with some facts and evidence.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

mefit's Avatar


mefit
11.27.2012 , 03:02 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by BrandonSM View Post
Traya beats Revan in space battle.




I swear you come to every thread and disagree with whatever Aurbere or Rayla says. Calling them Luke Fanboys or whatever even though they give clear facts.
Just because you guys openly agree with eachother and often bend to eachothers so called facts does not make them facts . I believe it is often called Strength in numbers .


Benboiling(Butchered the spelling) at least argues with some facts and evidence.
I calls it as it is , I do not need a group to give what I say anymore fact than what you guys do .
I am sure If I dug back far enough I can get you , Rayla , ProfessorWalsh.........all calling me a Revan Fanboy.
So in the end , what you consider facts have been often extremely Biased Opinion.
Darth Mefit
Sith Marauder
Chiss
Shadowlands Server

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.27.2012 , 03:02 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by mefit View Post
Woot Aurbere's "Revan is the worst weakest Hero of all time" and Masterme the defender !

Revan wins clearly.

Darth Traya was not that Powerful compaired to her Apprentices , not more powerful than certainly Nihilus , not of Sion , not of The Exile Meetra Surik , and not of Revan Period,

She was "A" Master of Revan and she was linked as such when she arrived at Macachor V , not because she was better . You have to remember they all though Revan was either dead or gone , at the time they were looking for someone of his level to lead them .
Exile if she was evil and arrived before Traya would have been that person .

Darth Traya is clearly not a WEAK or just Average Force User but in this , on a battle field of just the two . Revan would likely make her a freak like he did Malek .

She was a twister , a person who came in and tried to get in your head to show you what she see and how she want you to see it . Her Training to Revan is recordedly not of skills or powers but how the outlook of the Force and how he should think of those below him .
If you read all of Revan's lore in KotoR I and II , she taught him that the weaker were unworthy to live . He often displayed that when he would either convert a Jedi or kill them .

She practically worshiped Revan and everything he was and the only person compairable in her eyes was the Exile Meetra Surik . It is highly Doubtful with Darth Traya's way of thinking that she would of put Revan on such a Pedestal if he was weaker than her .
I know shes not really a Sithlord but most Sithlords do not like beings weaker than them , most do not respect Apprentices that are unable to kill them one day .

So in the end this thread is highly likely again underrate Revan and put him below every Forceuser of his time by the large population of Revan Haters .
Play nice now. While admittedly a flame war would make this thread my most popular to date - I don't want to cause any injury.

The problem here however with your argument is that your taking it more as a 1v1 battle, rather than a large scale Kaggath. There is more to consider than just Revan's power in the Force etc. I agree that Revan could best Traya, but he has to best her forces first. And on that field she can bring her other talents to bear. (Also any fight between these two would probably occur at Malachor - where Traya would have the advantage)

EDIT: IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT - PERSONAL INSULTS DO NOT COUNT AS ARGUMENTS, THEY WILL NOT WIN YOU ANY POINTS!

(basically I couldn't care less if you think your opponents are biased, haters, fanbois - when this debate is over I shall be choosing the winner based on the merits of your argument)