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Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.28.2012 , 06:36 AM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by Ausstig View Post
Revan wins.

Keria has no charisma and cannot motivate people. She says this her self "I speak with a passion that does not move others".

While that may not seem like much if you can't inspire loyalty in those underneath you then they will not fight for you, or at least as well as they can.

Keria does not know war. She knows manipulate and tricks, but not a knock down drag out fight.

She has like 6 ships and a few hundred, maybe a thousand being generous, Assassins. Her best, and really only, option is a guerilla style conflict, like the end of the second Boer War (1899-1902). It may take years but eventually Revan will run her down and force her to fight.

She will need fuel and food eventually, also the assassins are not perfect, the Mandos spotted them so it is likely others can as well.
Excellent point. However I think Traya's fleet is slightly more numerous then you give her credit.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
11.28.2012 , 06:39 AM | #142
I really like this argument.

Mandos battled Assassins and held their own (KOTOR 2)

Republic Troops > Mandos (Mandalorian War)

Republic Troops are more than a match for assassins

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.28.2012 , 06:40 AM | #143
It's good to see this hasn't erupted into a flame war. Let's keep it that way, and it doesn't matter is Aurbere is biased or not, if his points are valid (which they are) there is no problem.

I have a scenario I'd like to discuss, but more on that later.

Let's make this the only thread about Revan that didn't start a flame war. If this is achieved everyone will receive a free virtual cookie, and an internet commendation.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.28.2012 , 06:42 AM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
It's good to see this hasn't erupted into a flame war. Let's keep it that way, and it doesn't matter is Aurbere is biased or not, if his points are valid (which they are) there is no problem.

I have a scenario I'd like to discuss, but more on that later.

Let's make this the only thread about Revan that didn't start a flame war. If this is achieved everyone will receive a free virtual cookie, and an internet commendation.
Ooooh I likes virtual cookies!

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.28.2012 , 07:32 AM | #145
Alright. So the way I see it, we've made it clear that Traya can't win in open warfare. If you disagree with this (then you're wrong ), then please bear with me for argument's sake.

So, the best thing Traya can do is sit on Malachor V and send in her assassins to do some damage. This is without a doubt the most likely course of action, so let's focus on it.

1. Assassins are great for eroding forces and causing chaos among ranks, and, obviously, assassination. But they're not gonna be able to get at Revan. The problem is that the assassins won't be very useful in a quick war. This further indicates how long the war will be (assuming Traya does well). But how affective will these assassins be against Revan's men? They'll do some damage - but not enough to bring Revan's army to Traya's strength. This is due to Revan's leadership and charisma. He wouldn't allow his ranks to get chaotic. I'm certain he could calm his men and restore bravery in them.

2. Also: in a prolonged war, the value of resources increases exponentially. This means that Revan's advantage here gets even greater. So no matter how many soldiers Traya's assassins can take out, those men will be replaced by new ones and new ships.

3. Furthermore: In this scenario (the only one in which assassins are affective) Revan will have PLENTY of time to not only adapt to the assassins, and perhaps create assassins of his own. The longer the assassins are around, the less affective they are.

So in a prolonged war, Revan wins.
The only way the war would be short is if Traya engaged Revan in a legit battle. Revan wins that too.

I'm sorry but Traya just doesn't have a likely victory here at all.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.28.2012 , 08:35 AM | #146
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
I really like this argument.

Mandos battled Assassins and held their own (KOTOR 2)

Republic Troops > Mandos (Mandalorian War)

Republic Troops are more than a match for assassins
May I make an amendement -

Mandlorians > Republic soldiers

Jedi > Mandalorians

It was the Jedi not the republic that one the mandalorian wars. Sith assassins wiped out all of the republic soldiers on the Harbinger. As for Mandalorians trumping assassins, we have to consider that those were elite neo.crusaders and that the only one with Meetra's and Kreia's help.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.28.2012 , 08:42 AM | #147
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
May I make an amendement -

Mandlorians > Republic soldiers

Jedi > Mandalorians

It was the Jedi not the republic that one the mandalorian wars. Sith assassins wiped out all of the republic soldiers on the Harbinger. As for Mandalorians trumping assassins, we have to consider that those were elite neo.crusaders and that the only one with Meetra's and Kreia's help.
You are correct. However this is lacking in a way...

Republic soldiers under Revan's command > Republic soldiers

Darth_Scelestus's Avatar


Darth_Scelestus
11.28.2012 , 09:13 AM | #148
Some quick thoughts about the Ravager:

1) Does Traya gain the Ravager even though she can't have Nihilius? The Ravager, while powerful for its time, is no superweapon. Futhermore, can she have one of her Sith Lords hold the ship together to make it useable?

2) Since the Ravager was originally part of Revan's fleet, does he have it as well (and in working condition)?

I doubt the Ravager (or Ravagers) would win the war, but it would change the game a bit.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.28.2012 , 09:32 AM | #149
Beni would you please settle the point of whether or not the ravager can be used regardless? as it is the centerpiece of the Triumvirate's armada.

If it is allowed, it automatically puts any ship-to-ship battle in favour of the Sith, along wtih the Interdictor cruisers.

Also to settle the above post's point, the Ravager wasn't under Revan's command, at all, it was Saul Karath's flagship, who didn't become Revan's subordinate until he betrayed the Republic and joined the splinter Sith Empire, he doesn't even follow Revan into the unknown regions, he remains a Rear Admiral in the Republic Navy.

It was only seen at Dxun and then Malachor V where it was 'destroyed' and Karath took up the Leviathan.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.28.2012 , 10:06 AM | #150
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: THE RAVAGER IS OFFICIALLY EXCLUDED FROM THIS BATTLE

Reason: No Nihilus, no Ravager - it's a ghost ship and would fall apart with out him. Traya having the Ravager would be an unfair representation of her power base, as she has no power to keep the Ravager intact. By resurrecting the Ravager the ship became part of Nihilus's power base exclusively, as technically it is an extension of his abilities.

That is all.