Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.27.2012 , 09:09 PM | #111
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Sure, Revan has all of those things, but you are ignoring Traya's advantages.

Remember that this is Jedi Knight Revan. The Revan that doesn't know about these assassins and doesn't know what makes them so effective. He could create his own assassins, but they would pale in comparison to Traya's.

Traya's forces are much more powerful. Her fleet is much more powerful than Revan's standard Hammerhead-class vessels. She has powerful Sith at her command that almost destroyed the Jedi Order.

Her forces are loyal to her as well. They are servants of the Dark Side and of her. It is not as easy for Revan to convert Traya's forces as it would be for her to convert his.

Revan has logistics on his side, but that can mean nothing when Traya turns his men against him.

In a one-on-one fight, Traya will win. Since the battle will take place on Malachor, Traya will beat Revan.

This is an uphill battle for Revan. It is not a clear victory for either side, but Traya would win in the long run.
You make a good argument EXCEPT about Revan's capability to train assassins. He created the assassins that Traya will be using in this fight. This means that the capabilty to train and use excellent assassins is IN Revan. Jedi Knight Revan became Darth Revan. Where do you think Darth Revan got his ideas?

Also; Revan's fleet is bigger. AND he knows how to use them.

And those "poweful Sith at her command" were once Jedi under Revan's command....

Where does it say that Kreia's forces are particularly loyal to her?

Note: I'm not saying these assassins would be AS good as Kreia's. But they'd be nearly as good, and would, essentially, be nearly just as harmful. This means one less advantage for Kreia.

And this duel wouldn't FOR SURE be on Malachor V.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.27.2012 , 09:13 PM | #112
Quote: Originally Posted by BlazingShadow View Post
Okay.... so we're both right in a way.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.27.2012 , 09:17 PM | #113
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
You make a good argument EXCEPT about Revan's capability to train assassins. He created the assassins that Traya will be using in this fight. This means that the capabilty to train and use excellent assassins is IN Revan. Jedi Knight Revan became Darth Revan. Where do you think Darth Revan got his ideas?

Also; Revan's fleet is bigger. AND he knows how to use them.

And those "poweful Sith at her command" were once Jedi under Revan's command....

Where does it say that Kreia's forces are particularly loyal to her?

Note: I'm not saying these assassins would be AS good as Kreia's. But they'd be nearly as good, and would, essentially, be nearly just as harmful. This means one less advantage for Kreia.

And this duel wouldn't FOR SURE be on Malachor V.
Revan gained the knowledge to make these assassins on Malachor. If he wanted to replicate the assassins, he would have to go to Malachor. We are talking about Jedi Knight Revan here. Mandalorian Wars Revan.

Wouldn't matter. Revan's fleet is inferior to Traya's. She had the remnants of Revan's old Sith Empire. The same ships that outmaneuvered the Republic ships, the ships Revan is using.

Again, what is your point? You think he can convert them? They are bound to the Dark Side and Traya. She has basically enthralled them to her will. It was only until Nihilus and Sion rebelled that the Sith left her. And then Traya took control again.

The duel would take place on Malachor because Traya would ensure that it would. This Kaggath would turn into Traya's personal game. Her abilities as a manipulator would translate to her battle strategy. She would string Revan's forces along while she concentrated on turning Revan's men against him. She would slowly wear Revan down.

Edit: Let's face it. Traya's a planner. She schemes. Her ability to create master plans is almost as great as Plagueis and Sidious'. She would have the movements of the war on a calendar.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Girdeux's Avatar


Girdeux
11.27.2012 , 09:17 PM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by BlazingShadow View Post
We cannot use Nihilus, but Nihilus' powerbase and ship and bases are belong to us. But I understand, we have to not allow super weapons because that would make the match a very 1-sided fist fight with Traya as the clear victor.
yes, but you dont seem to understand. Without Nihilus himself being in this Kaggath. The Ravager is USELESS. Its a wreckage on the surface of Malachor without him. Thats like saying Revan's army has the power of Bastilas battle meditation without actually being in this kaggath.

The stipulations of the thread say "No Nihilius", therefor no Ravager.

BlazingShadow's Avatar


BlazingShadow
11.27.2012 , 09:20 PM | #115
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Okay.... so we're both right in a way.
Nuh-uh. You are 100% wrong, the Triumvirate as well as the three Sith Lords that headed the Triumvirate were Traya's doing. Revan's only involvement would be his remnant forces that composed their power base, but, as we know, the strength of the Triumvirate, almost 2/3rds of it which she is not allowed to use in this Kaggath, comes from its leaders and its assassins which were trained and created at the Trayus academy.

BlazingShadow's Avatar


BlazingShadow
11.27.2012 , 09:23 PM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by Girdeux View Post
yes, but you dont seem to understand. Without Nihilus himself being in this Kaggath. The Ravager is USELESS. Its a wreckage on the surface of Malachor without him. Thats like saying Revan's army has the power of Bastilas battle meditation without actually being in this kaggath.

The stipulations of the thread say "No Nihilius", therefor no Ravager.
The stipulation is no Superweapons, disqualifying Nihilus' Force Hunger, not his ship or contribution to the strength of the Triumvirate's forces.


But let's go your way: Sure. Revan also does not have any of his key commanders or the effect of their leadership on the troops. They are now SUPER NOT-EFFECTIVE greenhorns, and Revan's leadership is diminished.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.27.2012 , 09:24 PM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Revan gained the knowledge to make these assassins on Malachor. If he wanted to replicate the assassins, he would have to go to Malachor. We are talking about Jedi Knight Revan here. Mandalorian Wars Revan.

Wouldn't matter. Revan's fleet is inferior to Traya's. She had the remnants of Revan's old Sith Empire. The same ships that outmaneuvered the Republic ships, the ships Revan is using.

Again, what is your point? You think he can convert them? They are bound to the Dark Side and Traya. She has basically enthralled them to her will. It was only until Nihilus and Sion rebelled that the Sith left her. And then Traya took control again.

The duel would take place on Malachor because Traya would ensure that it would. This Kaggath would turn into Traya's personal game. Her abilities as a manipulator would translate to her battle strategy. She would string Revan's forces along while she concentrated on turning Revan's men against him. She would slowly wear Revan down.

Edit: Let's face it. Traya's a planner. She schemes. Her ability to create master plans is almost as great as Plagueis and Sidious'. She would have the movements of the war on a calendar.
"Ships that outmanueverd Revan's?" Could you explain when this happens? If so, is it gonna make up for the fact that Revan's a better general AND he's got way more ships then Traya does?

And if Traya's ships are technologically superior, then they're violating the Kaggath rules. I believe Beni said that the technology would be universal or something.

Girdeux's Avatar


Girdeux
11.27.2012 , 09:25 PM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by BlazingShadow View Post
The stipulation is no Superweapons, disqualifying Nihilus' Force Hunger, not his ship or contribution to the strength of the Triumvirate's forces.


But let's go your way: Sure. Revan also does not have any of his key commanders or the effect of their leadership on the troops. They are now SUPER NOT-EFFECTIVE greenhorns, and Revan's leadership is diminished.
The damn ship is useless without Nihilus thats the damn point . You can call upon the almighty Ravager in this battle, but its certainly going to be of no use when its a wreckage.

BlazingShadow's Avatar


BlazingShadow
11.27.2012 , 09:27 PM | #119
Quote: Originally Posted by Girdeux View Post
The damn ship is useless without Nihilus thats the damn point . You can call upon the almighty Ravager in this battle, but its certainly going to be of no use when its a wreckage on the surface of Malachor.
Nihilus is there in the way that Carth is there, Saul Karath is there, superman#123491u517204398 is there. Their prominent powers are nonexistant in this Kaggath but their forces are held together and still apart of this conflict. I don't give a damn if that means a generic commander is leading the Ravager and keeping it together with Duct tape and paste, it is as powerful as it was during the conflict of Telos.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.27.2012 , 09:28 PM | #120
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
"Ships that outmanueverd Revan's?" Could you explain when this happens? If so, is it gonna make up for the fact that Revan's a better general AND he's got way more ships then Traya does?

And if Traya's ships are technologically superior, then they're violating the Kaggath rules. I believe Beni said that the technology would be universal or something.
The ships provided by the Star Forge were superior to the Republics ships in ship-to-ship combat.

The ships themselves are superior to the Hammerhead-class vessels that make up the Republic fleet. IIRC the rules state that technology is universal. But the ships in Traya's fleet don't use super special advanced tech. They are just built superior. More guns, heavier armor, larger ships. They are just made superior.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus