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Time for a PvP Fix

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
11.30.2012 , 06:23 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Sirokai View Post
I saw the 'bioware staff post' symbol next to this thread and I got excited thinking they may have acknowledged sorc issues in pvp. lolnope, no post from bioware. sad times.
Or maybe the BW dev got banned for posting in a sorc thread and his post removed.

I joke I joke- who knows what happened, but maybe it's a good sign?

verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
11.30.2012 , 11:17 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Chemic_al View Post
We need MORE damage and LOTS of it.

A full WH dps Sorc has to have

Death Field and Chain Lightning have to hit for 8k, Death Field changed to 5 targets.
DoTs need to hit alot harder. A full dotted up toon with creeping terror, affliction and crushing darkness should be losing 5-6k a GCD. 8k with Death Mark ticks. A 3 dot set up ought to have some payback... but alas. They should also be unpurgable save by a healer specced into buffed cleanse. Shroud etc shouldn't work, if deathmark is on the sin/shadow.
Force Lightning/Lightning Strike needs a 50% damage buff.
Thundering Blast needs a proc to be made instant and hit for 6k.

IF we had these, they can justify our current supposed role as "kiter" and "glass cannon". We hit like a truck, but go down quick since we have no real defensive cooldowns.

The sad part, I'm not even joking. Heck I'd even toss Sorcs, shroud and still call it balanced with the hard hits i see floating aorund wzs. I rarely PvP on my sorc now, it's just not fun anymore.
Thats VERY overpowered.

Your numbers put sustained dps at 4k about for every idiots and their moms, with a massive 13k instant burst every 15 seconds, and full mobility for madness, with no counter.

Shroud at the worse case remove CD, but 3 or 5 seconds after you just reapply Affliction and CT.

Heck all that damage is internal. And after you wonder with posts like that why Bioware doesn't take you seriously.

TheLordMaster's Avatar


TheLordMaster
11.30.2012 , 12:13 PM | #33
OP the big three that killed the sorc class as someone who was played insanely way to much sorc.

1: Wrath Proc on Chain Lightning. Completely devastated the dps specs. Dots tick far to slow to matter.
2: Force Bending bug fix. Yes its a bug fix but yes it hurt. I can't tell you how many times now I get off a dark infusion off to only see it disappear and then some by only 1 dps'er. Being able to double dip would be fantastic these days.
3: Force power for health always having a health penalty. Did great things for PvE...***** our longevity in PvP. Makes AOE heal worthless which was one of our strongest heals.

These combined with the rise of sizeable dps buffs to marauders, smash juggs, powertechs, snipers have severely hurt our class.
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fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
11.30.2012 , 02:31 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Chemic_al View Post
We need MORE damage and LOTS of it.

A full WH dps Sorc has to have

Death Field and Chain Lightning have to hit for 8k, Death Field changed to 5 targets.
DoTs need to hit alot harder. A full dotted up toon with creeping terror, affliction and crushing darkness should be losing 5-6k a GCD. 8k with Death Mark ticks. A 3 dot set up ought to have some payback... but alas. They should also be unpurgable save by a healer specced into buffed cleanse. Shroud etc shouldn't work, if deathmark is on the sin/shadow.
Force Lightning/Lightning Strike needs a 50% damage buff.
Thundering Blast needs a proc to be made instant and hit for 6k.

IF we had these, they can justify our current supposed role as "kiter" and "glass cannon". We hit like a truck, but go down quick since we have no real defensive cooldowns.

The sad part, I'm not even joking. Heck I'd even toss Sorcs, shroud and still call it balanced with the hard hits i see floating aorund wzs. I rarely PvP on my sorc now, it's just not fun anymore.
That would be a bit high and not on par with other classes.

DF and CL should hit around the same as other aoes like them- around 6k on a crit- smash does more damage and auto crits to boot, so on average your DF/CL would be doing 4k- reasonable considering you won't have both (at least, not a buffed up one).

5k dot damage/GCD would be atrocious. That would be something like a 400% or higher raise. However- 2k dps with all dots up and death field when in top bracket gear would make the dots feasable- add to that creeping terror having dot protection, which is a must for the class that should have been in day one- you purge or shroud, you get stunned and take 3k damage, 5k on a crit.

2k dps plus FL and a DF hit could add up to the ability to get 10k damage done in three to five seconds- which is something mara, juggs, PT, sins can all achieve in a burst window.

Lightning strike should be doing 50% more damage than it is- the ability sucks for a 2 second cast. Thundering Blast needs to be doing way more, and it needs something on top of it to make it a worth 31 point talent. Also- it's in a heavy crit tree, take out the auto crit, give it instead double damage on affliction.

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
11.30.2012 , 09:01 PM | #35
LOL

Here I thought we had the first post on our forums from a developer since the original class feedback post months ago. They never even responded to our feedback and im assuming they posted here by accident and deleted it. Still its heartwarming to think they almost posted here
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veyl's Avatar


veyl
11.30.2012 , 09:03 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by AdmiralParmesan View Post
LOL

Here I thought we had the first post on our forums from a developer since the original class feedback post months ago. They never even responded to our feedback and im assuming they posted here by accident and deleted it. Still its heartwarming to think they almost posted here
I was in the same boat and went through every page to look for it.

Bioware is now trolling the Sorcs to add further insult to nerf/injury.

AmazoX's Avatar


AmazoX
11.30.2012 , 09:43 PM | #37
This is what happens in a Sourc x Marauder:

Sourc cast two madness spells.
Marauder jumps to Sourc and hits the bubble two times, DESTROYING IT.
Sourc could use Eletrocute, but then the Marauder would just break out of it.
Sourcerer start Force Lightning that deals 2,5k of damage if you're lucky.
Marauder while Force Lightning happens deals two 6k hit each.
Sourcerer is still finishing Force Lightining.
Marauder deals more 2k.
Sourcerer is dead.

This happens ALL *** TIME... We are slighty better against other classes... But we end dead too...

This class is becoming a kill steal class... That can only win against weaken or distracted opponents...

Some people love to say "But your class is made to kill others with continuous damage, not right away"
But how to do continuous damage if we are dead in 5 attacks max?

Really, marauders deals like 3k in a normal attack... ***?

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
11.30.2012 , 11:15 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by AmazoX View Post
This is what happens in a Sourc x Marauder:

Sourc cast two madness spells.
Marauder jumps to Sourc and hits the bubble two times, DESTROYING IT.
Sourc could use Eletrocute, but then the Marauder would just break out of it.
Sourcerer start Force Lightning that deals 2,5k of damage if you're lucky.
Marauder while Force Lightning happens deals two 6k hit each.
Sourcerer is still finishing Force Lightining.
Marauder deals more 2k.
Sourcerer is dead.

This happens ALL *** TIME... We are slighty better against other classes... But we end dead too...

This class is becoming a kill steal class... That can only win against weaken or distracted opponents...

Some people love to say "But your class is made to kill others with continuous damage, not right away"
But how to do continuous damage if we are dead in 5 attacks max?

Really, marauders deals like 3k in a normal attack... ***?
This is true- I'm damage hybrid, I have chain lightning one of our 'big hitters', I'm in full BM, augmented willpower, with some WH- so I have good gear.

Most games I don't get a 2.5k medal for damage. I use chain lightning on a crowd and I'm seeing TRIPLE digit numbers at times.

A three second cast spell that hits that pathetically? I'm spamming 1k lightning strikes while this jugg comes up and hits me with a 7k smash, and his sniper friend does 10k damage in 3 seconds on me.

Why is TTK so absurd for some classes- while our class is hitting like a wet noodle? It's even worse than I thought it was- thank god for the stun bubble because without it I don't even see the point of this class existing.

If smash was hitting people for 800 damage, even with no defensives up- what do you think juggs/mara would say?

Chemic_al's Avatar


Chemic_al
12.01.2012 , 05:37 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
That would be a bit high and not on par with other classes.

DF and CL should hit around the same as other aoes like them- around 6k on a crit- smash does more damage and auto crits to boot, so on average your DF/CL would be doing 4k- reasonable considering you won't have both (at least, not a buffed up one).

5k dot damage/GCD would be atrocious. That would be something like a 400% or higher raise. However- 2k dps with all dots up and death field when in top bracket gear would make the dots feasable- add to that creeping terror having dot protection, which is a must for the class that should have been in day one- you purge or shroud, you get stunned and take 3k damage, 5k on a crit.

2k dps plus FL and a DF hit could add up to the ability to get 10k damage done in three to five seconds- which is something mara, juggs, PT, sins can all achieve in a burst window.

Lightning strike should be doing 50% more damage than it is- the ability sucks for a 2 second cast. Thundering Blast needs to be doing way more, and it needs something on top of it to make it a worth 31 point talent. Also- it's in a heavy crit tree, take out the auto crit, give it instead double damage on affliction.
No, I don't think it's unreasonable in the least. We have no defensive cooldowns at all, the only other class in a bad place is mercs, the other dpsers do, and some way too many.

As for balance?

Have you seen how hard anni maras dots tick?
A Powertechs CGC dot ticks harder than ours.
Have you even been lolsmahed? Our aoes are not even auto-crit, nor break 5k.
Have you forgotten we have only light armour?
Maybe it slipped your mind we have no defensive cooldowns?
Do you forget we have no execute move, or any buff to damage whatsoever when the target is under 30% health?

Plenty of classes can wipe half our health, through a bubble in 2-3GCDs, and that is cool, so long as our damage remains totally subpar, unable to do jack to anyone? Coolio, well Bioware got that message alright.

Quote:
5k dot damage/GCD would be atrocious. That would be something like a 400% or higher raise. However- 2k dps with all dots up and death field when in top bracket gear would make the dots feasable- add to that creeping terror having dot protection, which is a must for the class that should have been in day one- you purge or shroud, you get stunned and take 3k damage, 5k on a crit.
So you have set up that requires, death field, affliction, creeping terror, and presumably enough casts of force lightning to get a wrath proc for crushing darkness, what 6 GCD set up say? And it does what at the moment? Absolutely jack. A sin comes along hits shroud and goes "Lulz sucker!", and we are stumped, can't even use our stat stick because we have no willpower to damage to get through shroud. Our DoTs need a HUGE buff to make them worthwhile. We as a class can be WIPED in 2-3GCDs, and you're saying that a 6GCD setup shouldn't do meaningful damage. Alright then. Bioware got that message too, pretty sure....

Quote:
2k dps plus FL and a DF hit could add up to the ability to get 10k damage done in three to five seconds- which is something mara, juggs, PT, sins can all achieve in a burst window.
Right? And have you seen how often you can lolsmash? Death field like Smash is on 15 sec cooldown, except the Rage tree has ways to lower it's cooldown, something I believe Sorcs can't do with Death Field. It's totally balanced, because it would be exactly that - burst, which is the only thing that matters in PvP, and we don't have.

But in case you missed the point about balance - the squishier the class, the higher the damage it has to do to compensate. So, no it shouldn't be hitting for the same as other classes' AoEs, it should be hitting harder, unless we get defensive CDs to compensate.

Chemic_al's Avatar


Chemic_al
12.01.2012 , 05:58 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post

A three second cast spell that hits that pathetically? I'm spamming 1k lightning strikes while this jugg comes up and hits me with a 7k smash, and his sniper friend does 10k damage in 3 seconds on me.
Any yet you complain that I'm asking for a buff to our damage so we can do 10k damage in 3 GCDs (2xFL and a Death Field), that other classes can do in 2 GCDs..... saying that it would be too much.

Yeah.... okay :S