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Time for a PvP Fix

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fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
12.28.2012 , 07:38 AM | #291
The problem is- I doubt the devs actually play the game- they seem to be the same as those people that look at end of match damage and go 'big numbers, that means good!'. After a year- their pvp team hasn't struck me as anything but utterly and completely clueless- they've done a million terrible things to pvp since launch- and the only really good thing is reducing the stat difference between EWH and WH... though- if you looked at champ-BH gear (before BH was buffed that is) that's more or less changing it back to how it was before.

After a year- BW still hasn't admitted that their metrics are wrong- either the numbers aren't telling the story, or they aren't reading it- but the fact of the matter is, you have marauders having been godmode for over eight months straight- no FOTM should ever last that long without a rebalance, but the worst part is- they've actually vastly improved mara in that time- taking gore and other abilities off the GCD, ravage uninterruptable, removing rage costs from several abilities- and of course giving a monumental buff to the Rage tree that they still haven't admitted is broken or given any hint they intend to change it.

At the same time- ops, mercs and sorc dps have all been garbage, we've all been asking for something for 8 months now, we've all been shunned from RWZ while some groups are taking 2 or even 3 marauders- and I don't think when we were told we could be a stealthy, rogue type we were counting on being forced into nothing but the healing role, or when we rolled the class that was like Palpatine, all scary and shooting lightning- we'd be bubble bots.

8 months without even a hint, and with most changes making things even worse- question is, how long do we give BW? If there was some sort of hope of balancing changes being made that would be one thing- but 8 months and they still haven't bothered to engage in conversation; and the only promise is a catastrophic nerf to the one ability- yes, the ONE ability- keeping us in RWZ right now.

Eight months of this- and it still feels like we're talking to a brick wall. At one point does one just give up and realize BW doesn't care in the slightest about pvp balance?

Dratten's Avatar


Dratten
12.28.2012 , 07:49 AM | #292
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
The problem is- I doubt the devs actually play the game- they seem to be the same as those people that look at end of match damage and go 'big numbers, that means good!'. After a year- their pvp team hasn't struck me as anything but utterly and completely clueless- they've done a million terrible things to pvp since launch- and the only really good thing is reducing the stat difference between EWH and WH... though- if you looked at champ-BH gear (before BH was buffed that is) that's more or less changing it back to how it was before.

After a year- BW still hasn't admitted that their metrics are wrong- either the numbers aren't telling the story, or they aren't reading it- but the fact of the matter is, you have marauders having been godmode for over eight months straight- no FOTM should ever last that long without a rebalance, but the worst part is- they've actually vastly improved mara in that time- taking gore and other abilities off the GCD, ravage uninterruptable, removing rage costs from several abilities- and of course giving a monumental buff to the Rage tree that they still haven't admitted is broken or given any hint they intend to change it.

At the same time- ops, mercs and sorc dps have all been garbage, we've all been asking for something for 8 months now, we've all been shunned from RWZ while some groups are taking 2 or even 3 marauders- and I don't think when we were told we could be a stealthy, rogue type we were counting on being forced into nothing but the healing role, or when we rolled the class that was like Palpatine, all scary and shooting lightning- we'd be bubble bots.

8 months without even a hint, and with most changes making things even worse- question is, how long do we give BW? If there was some sort of hope of balancing changes being made that would be one thing- but 8 months and they still haven't bothered to engage in conversation; and the only promise is a catastrophic nerf to the one ability- yes, the ONE ability- keeping us in RWZ right now.

Eight months of this- and it still feels like we're talking to a brick wall. At one point does one just give up and realize BW doesn't care in the slightest about pvp balance?
What I think it boils down to is the utter disaster the drop of subscribers have been and what toll the developing team had to pay for this. They simply do not have the manpower to manage a team for PvP-balancing, which is required if you want to be a competitive pvp-game. By not aknowledging this in 8 months they have clearly told us that they do not care. And that they do not have, either the competence or the the strenght to fix it. My guesse is sadly: both!

Laforet's Avatar


Laforet
12.28.2012 , 08:21 AM | #293
Quote: Originally Posted by Dratten View Post
What I think it boils down to is the utter disaster the drop of subscribers have been and what toll the developing team had to pay for this. They simply do not have the manpower to manage a team for PvP-balancing, which is required if you want to be a competitive pvp-game. By not aknowledging this in 8 months they have clearly told us that they do not care. And that they do not have, either the competence or the the strenght to fix it. My guesse is sadly: both!
While your acessment IS true, one of the reasons of the massive sub drops (not the only one, but a strong reason none the less) was the 1.2 PvP balance fiasco.

I personally know like 20 players who were very excited about PvP and almost instaquit after 1.2, 90% of them played sage / merc / dps operative.

Almost all the problem we have in PvP today have its root deep in the 1.2 patch, and the 1.2 patch was made by the same team who developed TOR in the first place (james ohlen, gabe, daniel, all the cool faces).

All of the people who contributed to the 1.2 fiasco are long gone, and unfortunately, people like Austin who seems to run the show ATM arent sensible enough to realise that he needs to review the balance philosofy that was introduced in 1.2.

If you think hard about pre 1.2 you will notice that, while 1.2 had its problems, it was more balanced than it was today, in all aspects.
Believer - Seer - Fatman - RETIRED

islander's Avatar


islander
12.28.2012 , 11:38 AM | #294
I dunno, I get tired of playing bubble stun healer. I really do. It gets old doing nothing but being a pinata for basically anyone else melee or ranged.

Yes, you can make a difference, but man, it sucks. Something about being in PvP and being unable to really hurt a fly just grates at me. I tend to solo PUG with madness /innervate hybrid, so at least I can kill someone a bit less geared then me. Plus some DPSers are just really, really bad at their jobs.

If you're in a 4/8 man with a personal guard then I mean its okay, I guess I just really hate the inability to even make a dent in an assailant. You have to sit in one place to heal 24/7 while OP melee classes abuse you.

It's just not enjoyable. I may be somewhat less useful in my pug madness hybrid, but I at least enjoy myself more doing it. I can still heal and bubble primary, but DPS when it makes sense to (when opponents numbers are dwindling, and time is of the essence to flip that node/door).
Gėllies Erimosi, Imperial Deadeye
<Hex> Prophecy of the Five

Chemic_al's Avatar


Chemic_al
12.29.2012 , 05:21 AM | #295
Yeah PvP is effectively dead in this game, nothing more than a diversion from the PvE aspect.

And it just makes me ask what stuff those guys are smoking when they do stuff like take chain lightning wrath proc away, but let smashtards auto-crit on their AoE, AND make it the hardest hitting move in the game.

You then have to wonder why they go and make master strike/ravage uninterruptable, when poor mercs and sorcs don't get any protection at all on their casts. Just look at mezzes. The instant AoE mezzes versus the single target mez we have to put up with, that has a long cast. It's just a bad joke, it really is. Look at the madness talent for extra targets, why isn't that working on extra players? Never mind they stick instant whirlwind on a DoT spec. Yeah... good thinking.

They remove the quick double dip heal, but allow scoundrels and ops to not only heal on the move but literally spam a big heal on anyone under 30% health.

Just look at the big hitter dps in this game like marauders and pyro powertechs, practically everything they do is instant and it's all big burst and good sustained damage. Then couple this with the marauder defensive CDs, and group utility like Predation.

And kiting is alright with bubble stuns and overload roots and whatever, but where are the proper tools to keep people at range like snipers? We need something to make melee think twice about jumping to us. Bubble damage reflection (cf Cloak of Pain) or whatever.

Even in PvE dps now we're falling behind as our abilities are just not scaling. Healing we're fine, but I didn't roll a sorc to heal.

But I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't have another nerf coming with the expansion, so for you fellow sorcs left out there I hope Santa brought you all a big tube of lube, because we all know which orifice that nerf bat is going to be rammed in. The only thing we have is a friendly pull and a bubble stun, which will get a nerf. Everything else, another class (save mercs) can do better and bring more utility.

The balance is heavily in melee favour and they have no intention of changing it or more likely even aware there's any issues that need addressing.

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
12.29.2012 , 09:39 AM | #296
I agree- when we first saw the beta for 1.2, even before it was out- I was calling it this game's NGE, I was saying that if this went through we'd see a drop of half our subs, and pvp would be all but finished in the game.

Two months later we've lost well over half our subs, pvp is almost gone, and the game's going f2p soon.

We were at 1.7 million subs steady for the first four months, there were dozens and dozens of servers, yet I still could get pvp queues faster than I can now with less than a quarter than number.

There were no metrics for them to base their nerfs off- that's the worst part of them trying to defend this with metrics- they didn't have any pre-season data, RWZ hadn't started- so they made massive, game changing nerfs wtihout anything but the whines of marauders on the forum and bad data gotten from normals and, from the looks of it, poorly interpreted.

Even before 1.2 marauders was showing up as one of the best classes- but it was a challenge to play so well and other classes hadn't been gutted enough to be simple fodder for them yet, same with sins- TM mercs were so easy to shut down, the only way they got big numbers is when people completely ignored them- which they should die if they do that. Ops weren't super OP, that BW thought teams of stunlocking ops was going to make people unsub if they didn't nerf them hard was rediculous- I knew one, one single operative on my server who scared me- ya, he beat me good when he was on me, but, he was a rogue class and I was a mage class, I expected to be thrashed because that felt like a counter to me- and even then with good play I could still beat him once every five engagements.

Sorcs with CL DF combo... I could get 6k damage in a small aoe with two abilities back to back- ya, it was a strong combo at the time, that was a third of someone's health- but we're a glass canon, of course we should have had some good damage output.

Now, what do we have? Some sorc earlier was trying to say we have a great burst combo because we can have crushing darkness cast and cast affliction right after it- that's the sad state of our 'burst', it's entirely purgable, slow damage... so not really burst at all.

Bloodcharged's Avatar


Bloodcharged
12.29.2012 , 10:11 AM | #297
I agree about the 1.2 Patch. I don't even play my Merc anymore in PVP it's just too frustrating. Any melee with half a brain can easily shut us down. The only time a Merc puts out any decent damage in PVP currently is if the other team is full of ******* letting him free cast all game long. Current PVP in this game is a joke, every single WZ is flooded with PT Pryos and lolSmashtards. I just find it amusing how instant abilities with no ramp up time or cast time are doing double the damage of abilities that actually have cast times.

Eldriq's Avatar


Eldriq
12.29.2012 , 03:45 PM | #298
I am giving it until Makeb lands and the 5 extra levels and see if they shock the hell out of me and actually fix this cluster **** of game balance. If not then I will see about some other game. Warzones are populated almost exclusively with smashfreaks and maruaders ttk is so low that you mine as well stay in spawn and talk **** to the other team.
El'drik - Sorcerer- War Hero - Harbinger Server Care Bear/White Knight
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth. Friedrich Nietzsche

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
12.29.2012 , 06:21 PM | #299
Quote: Originally Posted by Eldriq View Post
I am giving it until Makeb lands and the 5 extra levels and see if they shock the hell out of me and actually fix this cluster **** of game balance. If not then I will see about some other game. Warzones are populated almost exclusively with smashfreaks and maruaders ttk is so low that you mine as well stay in spawn and talk **** to the other team.
Yeah I am in the same boat. I have played this game for far too long waiting constantly for some hope of buff to our class. The best advice I ever got in this game?

REROLL

I will quit any game before rerolling is the only option to being viable
Depreva (Sith Sorcerer) - Prophecy of the Five-

Laforet's Avatar


Laforet
12.29.2012 , 06:35 PM | #300
Quote: Originally Posted by Eldriq View Post
I am giving it until Makeb lands and the 5 extra levels and see if they shock the hell out of me and actually fix this cluster **** of game balance. If not then I will see about some other game. Warzones are populated almost exclusively with smashfreaks and maruaders ttk is so low that you mine as well stay in spawn and talk **** to the other team.
Im not buying this expansion on my 2 accounts (i have 3 50 sorc) if i dont see a real preview of our skills and notice a BIG improvement.

Im not talking about numbers improvements, i want physolofy improvement.

Unfortunately i dont think that will happen but im a try hard, what can i do.
Believer - Seer - Fatman - RETIRED