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Time for a PvP Fix

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

ShupFace's Avatar


ShupFace
12.16.2012 , 07:18 PM | #221
In General:

We need a defensive cooldown. The self-heal is nice, but it's not enough.

We need to be able to do more damage across the board. We're just not keeping up with other classes.

Madness:

It would be cool if one of our abilities like affliction, shock or death field had a chance to proc a mobile force lightning. This would increase our ability to do damage while on the run and the 50% slow would help keep opponents at a distance. This would probably need to be a skill high up in the madness tree.

DoTs could hit harder with increased damage and/or reduced length. It would be cool if Creeping Terror was immune to purge or immediately dealt damage and/or a debuff when purged.

Shock would be more useful if it did more damage and/or cost less force to use. It would also be cool if this became our execute ability, doing 30% more damage when targets are below 30% health.

Force Speed could make you immune to snares, roots and stuns for duration.

Force Slow could root the target for 2 seconds either instead of, or in addition to, slowing them by 50%.

Life steal from parasitism, death field and devour could restore more health to improve our survivability.

Lightning:

Lightning Strike could do more damage. It could also have a higher chance to proc a lightning storm.

Forked Lightning could be improved with a higher damage bonus and/or a higher chance to proc. An increase to the bonus from Conduction would be helpful too.

Thundering Blast could use a boost to its damage. When used on targets with affliction it could receive a bonus to damage instead of auto-crit. It would also help if there was a way to make it instant cast, such as from your Lightning Barrage or Lightning Storm procs. It could also benefit from Forked Lightning...

Corruption:

I don't know enough about healing to make helpful comments, but I've heard a few people say Dark Heal is rubbish and we could use a low-level instant heal.

Hairyzac's Avatar


Hairyzac
12.17.2012 , 09:43 AM | #222
Dark Heal is indeed garbage. It should cost little to no force in its current state. Or it should be buffed to heal for much more, as it costs basically the same amount of force as our big heal but heals for a staggeringly less amount.

veyl's Avatar


veyl
12.17.2012 , 01:09 PM | #223
Quote: Originally Posted by Hairyzac View Post
Dark Heal is indeed garbage. It should cost little to no force in its current state. Or it should be buffed to heal for much more, as it costs basically the same amount of force as our big heal but heals for a staggeringly less amount.
The sad part about dark heal is when it's compared to the quick heals of the other two heal types. Both operatives and Mercs have a short cast time on their big heals already and operatives go even further with their spammable FREE heal that does more and on the move. (( I only say spammable because having probe up around the raid almost always guarantee constant procs to use that free probe ))

When the resurgence nerf came (because they couldnt fix the double cast on the 1.4 infusion so they removed it entirely), Sorc healers took a big hit in pvp. Now with bubble flash hybrid on the chopping block again, sorc healers will once again be pushed to the back of "desirable" in rateds.

Now if only the development team would read this thread...and the class feedback thread. It's christmas, miracles might happen?

Cuppcake's Avatar


Cuppcake
12.17.2012 , 01:23 PM | #224
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
I don't mind not having LS instant- you could still make it cast as long as you could move while casting, kind of like how steady shot works for hunters- a low damage (and LS already is very low damage) ability you can use while moving to build resource (which is what LS does for lightning spec).

About the cast time of it being instant- as you said, it's the same as the GCD. I think alacrity should effect the GCD though- alacrity as it stands is the most useless stat in the game for everyone, first off it doesn't give much per point- second, unless I'm missing something it doesn't effect GCD.

If alacrity were to, say- decrease spell casts, GCD and increase resource regen it might actually become a useful stat for once.

Well, it does. Spam lightning strike over and over - with a little alacrity the cast time will be below 1.5 seconds and so will the GCD. However it doesn't lower GcD for instants.
Its still a pretty useless stat though I agree.

I've just recently returned to the game, I already had 90% warhero gear from when I quit, rest is BM.
Augmented it all so I'm almost up to speed gearwise.
Went in to some warzones, I couldn't dish out a hit above 2.6k (DF).

I figured its because of the massive amounts of expertise on gear and stuff.
I've just over 1250 myself.
I was wrong, its just because sorc burst is now nihil.
I quit about 3 weeks after rwz pre-season started, right after all the biggest nerfs to sorcs and buffs to our beloved utterly overpowered FOTM classes.

After a few warzones of getting absolutely obliterated by pyro's and any melee with a lightsaber I just went healing because there really is no point doing anything else, appart from bubble folk for stun abuse.

Blowing all cooldowns and with near to perfect use of CC and snares I managed to get a few pt's to 50%, at which point I'm usually dead or left with no other option but to run the heck away.
I have to blow 5 GcD's to do the dmg they can do in 2, while attempting to kite (which is hard enough as it is thanks to gap closers and autosnares which will last just about forever).

I've seen allot of "sorcerors are fine if left alone" and the likes, but tbh thats crap to.
Yeah we can do some AoE, but tbh even that sucks. 2.5k Deathfield crits and 2k Chain Lightnings just don't cut it.


I've not even mentioned how we suck in objective based PvP, which is what all the WZ's are.
We can't defend because we are squishy and can't kite for ****, and frankly outside of bubblepop and overload root our CC blows.
On the offense we are to bloody easly shut down or simply bursted down we're just cannonfodder.

My guess is the dev's are just understaffed - its all to much work for them to give a crap.

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
12.17.2012 , 10:05 PM | #225
Well you have to optimally gear your sorc to do decent damage but still......they really need some work on the quality of sorceror damage. There are a thousand ways in this game to stop dot damage or evade casting. Mind you this does not apply to certian class archetypes like merc, but the classes with good options.

With the large amounts of cc, dot removal abilities, knockbacks, pulls and in combat stealth it can be very hard to set up burst damage as a sorc. This became even more hard with the changes made to the electrocute stun. I play full lightning spec on my sorcerer more often than most, and have had more success using it than anyone I have seen. Yet still getting off 2 second casts like crushing darkness and Thundering blast are very difficult in pvp. People seem to think polarity shift is the answer, but its not. Interrupts are not the only way casts are stopped and im usually just stunned or mezzed through the duration of the only cooldown I have to get casts off.

This is made worse by the fact that even if you get the cast off it doesn't deal that much damage in proportion to how much damage you may be taking. To make matters worse every sorcerer spec relies on long duration dots that can be easily removed by assassins, operatives, and sorcs. The fact that I have to waste globals reapplying our already low damage dots just makes our slow steady damage even worse.

--------------------------------------

I recently just participated in my server's dueling tournament. Out of about 30 players I was the only Sorcerer, there were no mercenaries and only two dps operatives. The tournament was about 50% assassin, 30% marauder and the rest juggernauts. Does anyone see a problem with this? While I did okay, there is only so much I can do against assassins that can cloak off my dots, control me entirely and even after I lower their health they can drop combat, mind trap me and Seethe for a heal. Even playing the match-up perfectly as a sorcerer you can still easily loose to the more capable classes in this game. Its honestly depressing
------------------------------------
Depreva (Sith Sorcerer) - Prophecy of the Five-

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
12.17.2012 , 10:08 PM | #226
Also another sorceror unique defensive cooldown I came up with.

Force Fade - Increases defense rating by 50% for 12 seconds


Also stop saying alacrity is a useless stat, that is far from the truth. As sad as it is the majority of our damage comes from casting, most particularly in pvp casting force lightning. Having a higher alacrity rating increases our force regen in madness tree, gives us more chances overall to get wrath procs and increases the speed of our force lightning's damage. After you have enough surge you might as well stack alacrity anyway since surge DR starts to hit pretty hard after 76%. Even though alacrity isn't an amazing stat and should reduce global cooldowns, its not worthless.
Depreva (Sith Sorcerer) - Prophecy of the Five-

wwkingms's Avatar


wwkingms
12.17.2012 , 11:26 PM | #227
its really simple

either give us better survivability

or up our dmg.. derp


affliction needs to do more total dmg, lightning strike is a joke, thundering blast our hardest hitting ability still only hits for about half as much as lolsmash

our melee AC counterparts shock for twice as hard as us... force lightning has been nerfed to all hell

i mean **** maul is spammable and can hit for over 4k
rail shot in theory can be refreshed every other cooldown and crits for over 4k
and these classes have wayyyyy more survivability than us.

going vs a vanguard or pt is just a joke.. i can at least kite melee but these faceroll monkeys just use a rotation of non-interruptable instants thats if all crit would put us near death

wrath should be reworked- crushing darkness should be baselien INSTANT and wrath should instead make your next crush darkness, lightning strike, or chain lightning do 50% more dmg, and deathfield do 25% more dmg


sorcs need some intimidating abilities cause right now im sick of getting jumped by these 20k hp marauders with a handful of survival cooldowns smashing my face in no matter how well i manage my cc
NIHIL

THE BASTION

Saiken's Avatar


Saiken
12.18.2012 , 07:03 AM | #228
Quote: Originally Posted by Thurinlore View Post
http://i.imgur.com/zn786.jpg

Looks like the killing power was just fine in that match...
By the look of that post, everyone else in that WZ were really bad players.

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
12.18.2012 , 01:42 PM | #229
Quote: Originally Posted by Saiken View Post
By the look of that post, everyone else in that WZ were really bad players.
They may have been bads but Thorinlore is a good player. Personally I would just like the option to play a spec that isn't the hybrid. Didn't bioware nerf us in 1.2 saying that the 31 point trees aren't viable then they are doing something wrong? It appears they didn't even listen to what they said.
Depreva (Sith Sorcerer) - Prophecy of the Five-

Edonidd's Avatar


Edonidd
12.18.2012 , 06:59 PM | #230
My full madness Sorcerer is entering into early retirement. I have a sniper as well, who is now going to get the majority of my play time. Two ranged classes, two full specs. Both only play as DPS spec. Let's compare and contrast.

Sorc theoretically gives up 5% damage because I have the option to play other spec's even if I don't ever do so. I am honestly fine with that.

Sorc actually gives up XX% damage (I don't know actual numbers but it is definitely in the double digits) in sustained DPS, and XXX% damage in burst.

Sorc gives up higher armor rating, which is an exponential increase with new levels of gear. The disparity will continue to grow.

Sorc has to spec for CC that Snipers get for free, and even theoretically speccing just to get those CC options which Snipers get for free, Sorc's cannot go full 31 points into any tree, which is required to get one of these abilities. Insta cast mez (Flashbang vs Haunted Dreams), Root on knockback (Cover Pulse vs Electric bindings), 2 second root on 15 second CD with added damage (Legshot vs Creeping Terror). Snipers get all of those as free baseline abilities no matter which tree they spec into. Sorcs have to spec into a specific tree to get any of those, and can only get a max of 2/3.

Sorc's knockback discussed above is now a frontal cone, that is bugged and easy to strafe around, while Snipers still get full 360 degrees. Also Flashbang is an AoE that affects up to five targets, while Whirlwind only affects one. An ability in one of our trees that let's it affect up to 2 additional targets was apparently considered too gamebreaking to be allowed to work in PvP and is PvE only...?

Snipers have an execute ability, sorc's don't at all.

Sorc's can individually cast static barrier on a team mate, while snipers can pop ballistic shield and have it affect entire team. To make up for the longer CD of Ballistic shield, Snipers are also given a self only shield probe, and have an ability ballistic dampers low enough in a tree that any build can take it.

Snipers have a free ability that restores a large amount (50%) of their energy resource. With an ability low in one of their trees it also regenerates a noticable amount of health (6%). Sorcerers have one ability to regenerate their energy mechanic, and can only do so at both the cost of a large amount health points (15% or 2.5 times the amount Snipers are given) AND additionally also have a slower energy regeneration after using the ability; all for a miniscule amount of energy (8%).

When snipers stand still they go into cover and cannot be leaped at by melee classes, or interupted in their casting. Additionally they have an extra ability which makes them completely immune to all CC while in cover on a shorter timer than CC break. When Sorcerers stand still they have... nothing comparable at all.

Both classes have a stun on short range now. To a ranged class optimally operating at ~25-30 meters away from an enemy, there is zero functional difference between the 4 meter range of snipers stun and the 10 meter range of sorcerers stun, however there is a huge difference between the 45 second CD of snipers ability and the 60 seconds on a sorcerer's.

Comparing the two classes one has significantly more sustained DPS. Fine, Bioware announced that was intended, and although the difference is bigger than your stated goal, it is something you can get around to fixing eventually and is not game breaking. What is game breaking is also giving that class that does less sustained DPS: SIGNIFICANTLY less burst, SIGNIFICANTLY less survivability, SIGNIFICANTLY less CC, SIGNIFICANTLY less ways to counter CC, and SIGNIFICANTLY less group utility. That is game breaking.