Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Time for a PvP Fix

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
12.05.2012 , 03:12 PM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
There's too much here to comment on, but I noticed a lot of people repeating "the bubble is getting nerfed. BW already said so." So I figured that could use some clarification.

We're currently undergoing a lot of class rebalance for a future major patch, so it's an understatement to say that things aren't locked down yet. However, the problem with Backlash (Lightning's incapacitate on Static Barrier) is mostly that it can be applied to any target, making an entire team of allies stun-bubbled. Since this is such great utility for the Lightning Sorcerer, we don't want to change the effect of Backlash, but we are considering making the Backlash effect only apply to the original caster - so you only get a Backlash when you put your Static Barrier on yourself.

That's just the current idea. We don't have any plans on making Static Barrier or Backlash worse than it currently is for the Sorcerer that uses it.

We're aware that even this change lowers the amount of group support Lightning offers, so that's something we have to figure out before we can pull the trigger on Backlash.

I wish I could tell you guys more, but there isn't enough locked down yet. Rest assured, it's not as simple as "too good - nerf. Next."
This sounds slightly promising that you're considering other things- do remember that in RWZ people are taking sorcs for one reason- the GROUP utility of lightning/corruption. Take away that stun bubble and we will be replaced by double operative healers once again.

If you want us to have a place in RWZ as healers we need to have something to offer- and right now we don't have a place as DPS period, so consider that. Making backlash self only destroys our group utility- which is all we are valued for right now.


This was the nerf we expected- I'm just hoping if you go through with it you'll give us the buff we need.

veyl's Avatar


veyl
12.05.2012 , 05:42 PM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
This sounds slightly promising that you're considering other things- do remember that in RWZ people are taking sorcs for one reason- the GROUP utility of lightning/corruption. Take away that stun bubble and we will be replaced by double operative healers once again.

If you want us to have a place in RWZ as healers we need to have something to offer- and right now we don't have a place as DPS period, so consider that. Making backlash self only destroys our group utility- which is all we are valued for right now.

This was the nerf we expected- I'm just hoping if you go through with it you'll give us the buff we need.
What this guy said and is exactly what I've been saying all along. When the bubble gets nerfed (and if you're looking to take it off our targets too) the need for a Sorc in RWZ, disappears.

Please go look at our damn class feedback thread Peckenpuffs.

This is what you'll find in case you don't feel like trudging a few clicks away:
1- We're the glass cannon, without the cannon (putting these together since they go hand in hand) Other AC's see us as an easy target and kill, ususually focused first by everyone to get one less enemy on the field.. (Majority of these statements were made pre bubble of stupidity and since it'll be nerfed... the statements will be accurate again).
2- Our PVE DPS is -way- behind. Which it is and plenty of people in this thread have pointed it out using torparse as an example.
3- We need a defensive CD worth a damn (Currently, bubble hybrid spec is the only viable option because it's a broken (Or unintended) mechanic that gives us a few more seconds to run.) Force sprint is easily counterable, Bubble is easily broken by EVERY AC in the game with one GCD and that brand new self heal for a DPS sorc? Half of a non crit smash is what it heals for with trauma.
4- Force Regen for Madness DPS sorcs is atrocious in WZ's and we're forced to -kill ourselves- to get back the battery juice to hurt things again.
5- Sorc Madness DoT's are terrible and scale in a pathetic fashion.
And just a personal add:
6- DEATH MARK IS STILL BUGGED. (So is the Lethality sniper dot thing that does the same effect). There's video proof, still no response. (( it's a complete PVE dps loss if there's 2 sorcs//assassins. ))

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
12.05.2012 , 05:45 PM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
Take Sniper vs Madness Sorc for example. Do you honestly believe that a madness sorc should have root cleansing for free with force speed? You are basically asking for roots to be removed completely out of any class matchup vs sorcs. That's huge dude.. That's way too powerful.

Next, you are asking for root immynity, while you yourself want to be a root machine. I guess you are one of those sorcs that consider Creeping Terror a bad top tier skill. I judge skills by the way how they synergize with other skills from that spec. )
There's a difference between root immunity- and every 20 seconds being able to break roots. This class has ZERO defensives, we take between 15-20% bonus damage from all attacks due to being light armoured, we can be interrupted at almost every cast we have- we are squishy and mobility is absolutely needed to survive.

Yet- we can be immobilized and be able to do nothing about it minus the 2 minute CC break.

Now, as for being gods of rooting- please pay attention. This class can have a maximum of 1 root no matter how you spec- either a 2 second root, or a 2 second but can last 5 seconds without damage.

This class is constantly called the 'kiting class' and survival in all specs does rely on kiting.

Let's just look at the baseline of this class for a moment.

A kiting class- with no CC or root break period. A kiting class- with no spammable snare. A kiting class- with no root. A kiting class- with almost every ability with a cast time. A kiting class that cannot keep even a single target perma snared because our snare is on a longer CD than duration.

That sound like a kiting class to you?

Even if you go into specs- you get at most one root, and you still can't perma snare unless you are channeling and thus rooted yourself.

There are classes that have better baseline kiting ability than we have fully specced- classes that don't need to be kiters at all.



Again- we do not have perma snares, we do not have any CC immunity, we do not have a baseline root- we are the sorriest excuse for a 'kiting class' in the history of mmos. Worst yet- we're against classes that are built not to anti kite us- but to anti kite vastly superior kiters like frost mages- a carnage mara can root us for 9 seconds straight- 9 SECONDS- and after that's over they're 3 seconds away from having a root back up- and between that they have a stun and a mez. A carnage mara can keep you utterly immobile for almost half a minute straight- and not be utterly dry even then.

And you want to tell me that adding a perma snare, root breaker and baseline root is going to make a class with no defensive CD, no casting mobility, and some of the lowest burst in the game OP? Really?

swifferdude's Avatar


swifferdude
12.05.2012 , 05:48 PM | #124
I disagree, sorcs are fne as is. they have great dps, great survivability, lightning spec is not made for pvp, but for pve (imo). your changes will just make them even more op and even harder to kill.
POT5 PvP
My Youtube channel: GrassianGaming
I play a variety of classes! Check it out, like, and sub!

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
12.05.2012 , 06:17 PM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by swifferdude View Post
I disagree, sorcs are fne as is. they have great dps, great survivability, lightning spec is not made for pvp, but for pve (imo). your changes will just make them even more op and even harder to kill.
Except RWZ compositions have nearly every sorc being part lightning, and a healer. So- you're wrong on dps, and you're wrong on lightning spec.

Then again, you seem to think sorcs are OP and hard to kill- so I can only assume you haven't played this game since January. Check out the class feedback thread- where 99% of people agree that everyone considers this class a free kill. Yup, that's survivability that's fine for you huh?

Commissar_Omega's Avatar


Commissar_Omega
12.05.2012 , 06:34 PM | #126
You need one thing to fix sorcs in pvp:

Chain lightning off wrath. I would give up anything, even bubble blind, to have that back.
Komissar Omega
Pot5 - 50 Sith Sorcerer
Pkers

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
12.05.2012 , 06:45 PM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by swifferdude View Post
I disagree, sorcs are fne as is. they have great dps, great survivability, lightning spec is not made for pvp, but for pve (imo). your changes will just make them even more op and even harder to kill.
This is utterly stupid. Sorcs suffer from many fundamental problems. The single target damage is very pitiful in pvp unless you are hybrid or full lightning spec. Full lightning however can rarely even get the time to cast all of the abilities is needs and its burst is reliant on chain lightning critting. The problem is that this game has so many interrupts and cc abilities that it is very hard to actually get casts off, which leaves our low damage even worse off. Full madness has large problems with force management and burst, the hybrid is overly reliant on force lightning and full lightning can't get off it's casts.

Maybe you haven't played as a sorcerer but it isn't exactly fun most of the time. You are hunted every warzone not because of your value to the team, but because people don't fear you and like the big damage they get from killing sorcs. I play warzones where certain players will chase me the entire match, and if I am on thier team they chase after any other enemy sorc/sage they see. Sorcerors don't have any "get off me abilities", defensive cooldowns, or any really theartning offensive cooldowns.

Here are the problems.

Madness
Part of the problem is that in pve full madness creates most of its damage from force lightning and the wrath proc (this is the basis of pve damage and force management). But it is very rare that you can freely cast force lightning in pvp and very difficult to get full force lightning casts while kiting. If you are very skilled at kiting full madness can kite very well, but in this lies the problem. Without force lightning you will never produce much damage as full madness and never regenerate any force. As well the only good damaging kiting tool we have is shock and deathfeild, which shock deals little damage and costs way too much force. This creates a class that can't create good single target pressure and runs itself out of its own resource by kiting. The suriviability is low so kiting is necessary but in kiting you lower your already low damage and limit your own options down the road due to force problems.

Hybrid
The best sorc dps pvp spec. It does not have problems with force and has moderate to good burst depending on your gear, cooldowns and your luck with procs. With the bubble stun as is, it has decent survivability as well and cc. The only real problem with the hybrid spec is how overly reliant on force lightning it is. When force lightning is interrupted you loose most of your good single target options. As well it still weak defensively and its burst is not as front loaded or reliable as other classes in the game.

Lightning
Good force management but terrible survivability and way too much hard casting for a game like this. The long casts all hit relatively weak and the burst is completely proc reliant. The hardest hitting move is chain lightning which only hits hard on crit, but unlike other classes we have no way to "make" it crit aside from recklessness. Chain lightning also requires casts in order to get the lightning storm proc to use it only to get a move that may hit in the 1.5k area if it doesn't crit. While full lightning has the best theoretical burst, it is too based on RNG and casts in order to be effective or reliable in a pvp environment.


Personal Ideas for buffs

Baseline-
Saber strike and Trash now benefit from willpower
Recklessness 1 min cooldown
Force speed makes you immune to roots and slows for the duration
Defensive cooldown
Static barrier makes you immune to interrupt for its duration
Whirlwind is instant cast for sorcerer AC

Madness
-Thrash roots the oponent for 1.5 seconds and increases dot crit chance by 5% against that target for 7 seconds
-Make chain shock in madness spec 10/20/30% higher chance to crit with shock on targets below 30% health
-Affliction and creeping terror get a lesser duration but more damage. Force lightning's damage is slightly nerfed to compensate if pve damage is too high.
-Dot portion of crushing darkness is now internal damage
-Creeping terror ticks restore 2% of your force
-Lightning strike casted via wrath hits 30% harder

Lightning
-Thrash lowers the targets armor by 10% and gives you a free instant lightning strike
-Thundering blast is no longer auto crit, but has a high base damage to compensate.
-Chain lightning will auto crit on targets affected by your affliction
-6 additional seconds of affliction moved up higher in the lightning tree
-Polarity shift cooldown reduced to 1.2 minutes
-Backlash bubble stun is made into self cast only. Bubble stun on teammates still works though through specing if you are 31 points lightning. This is to avoid healer/lightning hybrids from spamming bubbles without hurting full lightning's team utility.

Hybrid
Chain lightning can be casted by wrath again
Depreva (Sith Sorcerer) - Prophecy of the Five-

Fireswraith's Avatar


Fireswraith
12.05.2012 , 08:45 PM | #128
Wonder if anyone else is tired beating a dead horse. Anyone? I know I am. Let's all just hold off on things until they release their class balance notes and then tell them everything wrong with the Sorc changes.

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
12.05.2012 , 09:22 PM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by Fireswraith View Post
Wonder if anyone else is tired beating a dead horse. Anyone? I know I am. Let's all just hold off on things until they release their class balance notes and then tell them everything wrong with the Sorc changes.
Already did that with 1.2- look at what it got us. Zilch.

I came back for the f2p to see if they'd fixed anything, but I'm coming back instead to talks of nerfing our one viable RWZ spec- maybe they'll fix it when they bring out an xpac.

Thurinlore's Avatar


Thurinlore
12.06.2012 , 06:20 AM | #130
Quote: Originally Posted by Commissar_Omega View Post
You need one thing to fix sorcs in pvp:

Chain lightning off wrath. I would give up anything, even bubble blind, to have that back.
^
/5char
Thurinlore
<Casual>