Jump to content

Dissident Companions


Wallner

Recommended Posts

I started playing again on my Jedi Knight one or two weeks ago. And I was thinking about why Lord Scourge was still hanging around. I don't really remember if he gave me a reason for staying with me after I killed the emperor, can anyone remind me?

 

But then I also started thinking about how dull it is that you get stuck with companions that totally disagree with your character's behavior and opinions on most topics, and you can't leave them nor affect their personality. Why? If you have to make us stick with these companions at least make us able to affect their morality, like in Kotor.

 

Why would Scourge stick around when he completely disagree's with everything I do? Why can't I, as a light side Jedi, kick him out (or even capture him, he's a sith for crying out loud) ? And why can't I reprogram HK-51 to be less interested in "deleting" people, and more interested in protecting people?

 

Gah, well I had to vent somewhere. But I guess my point is, if we have to be stuck with these predetermined companions, at least make us able to affect their personality/morality. Maybe with conversations, actions, or in the case of droids reprogramming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Scourge will stay until he is sure the Emperor left us no surprises.

 

Ahh ok.. Well that doesn't really mean he has to stay with me. We could contact each other if something happened.

 

 

You should see Skadge.... I hate that guy so much.

 

Hmm don't know who that is xD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Scourge is sort of an odd fellow. He obviously follows you because you're the Jedi he saw in his vision 300 years ago as the one who would defeat the Emperor. He'll stay with you until he is certain there is nothing left of the Emperor. As he states, "I'll always be Sith, but that doesn't mean we can't help each other", so since they share a common enemy, he sticks around. Besides, I don't really think Scourge could go back that easily. He's committed high treason to the Empire and there's obviously another Emperor's Wrath out there now, who would probably hunt down Scourge if he/she was aware of Scourge (which he/she is not).

 

Then there's also the amusement factor. As Scourge notes in one of his companion dialogues, he enjoys trying to plant seeds of doubt and darkness in a light-sided Jedi Knight, trying to cultivate the strength of the Sith in him/her, though he states that he's doing that "purely for his own amusement".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A more frustrating "dissident companion" is Ashara. If you're a DS SI she's the equivalent of a LS JK's Scourge- can't change her and probably don't want her on your ship. The fact that a SW can have Jaesa go one way or the other likely means the thought was there, it just wasn't further implemented.

 

Another reason for Scourge to stick around is the stock line all non-LI companions give in the end (I'll-be-here-for-your-legacy-etc). If you're the least bit DS- and take the DS convo choice- his assertion that he'll train your child(ren) is very compelling. What else does he have to do? As Ben pointed out, he can't exactly go waltzing back to the Empire...and do you really see him becoming another Praven, even if the Jedi would have him (huge 'if')? In the legacy context, the JK may be the only means by which he could return to the Empire- via the JK's offspring.

 

(edit: the aforementioned final conversation, if you're LS and choose LS, still has him claiming that he'll hang around to see to your kids but it takes a more menacing tone; he implies that as a Jedi you're a waste of power and that he won't allow the same "mistake" to occur again)

 

I tried to think it out- hope that made some sense, the caffeine's just not kicking in fast enough today :D

Edited by thatghost
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Scourge will stay until he is sure the Emperor left us no surprises.

 

 

Scourge had a very specific vision of you defeating the Emperor. Something about taking the crown from his head and claiming his power for yourself. The JK ending did not reflect this so his visions are still unfulfilled. That is why he sticks with you.

 

 

A more frustrating "dissident companion" is Ashara. If you're a DS SI she's the equivalent of a LS JK's Scourge- can't change her and probably don't want her on your ship. The fact that a SW can have Jaesa go one way or the other likely means the thought was there, it just wasn't further implemented.

 

Yes and no. Ashara is more logical than anything. I used her on my DS Sorc more or less from 35-50 and managed ~7k Affection without gifts. For example, if you blow up an orphanage because it's fun, she will hate it. If, however, you can provide some sane reason it's necessary to blow up said orphanage, she will like it.

Edited by Pernicia
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm don't know who that is xD

 

Bounty Hunter companion on Belsavis. Houk psychopath killer who badmouths you pretty much all the time and you HAVE to take him along. God, my Bounty Hunter would've shot him then burned his corpse for good measure :mad:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bounty Hunter companion on Belsavis. Houk psychopath killer who badmouths you pretty much all the time and you HAVE to take him along. God, my Bounty Hunter would've shot him then burned his corpse for good measure :mad:

His final conversation is pretty great. Y'know, in that 'actually terrible and made me renew my confusion as to why I keep him around' kind of way.

 

Sorry there Skadge buddy, but when the best you can muster is 'I've decided you're sort of alright but I'll still kill you one day because lol', I'm going to continue wanting to introduce you to the airlock.

Edited by Bleeters
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another thing to note about Scourge is that he is immortal (although to me the Emperor's and Scourge's kind of Immortality is more immune from aging than Superman). No, I don't mean that in a "well of course he is, he has been alive for 330 + years" sense, I mean you need to understand that on a deeper level to get inside his head to see why he stays. When you get to live for forever, time begins to lose its meaning as it would for a mortal being. Of course there is the unfulfilled vision aspect, but Scourge has a lot of patience and I doubt he would mind staying around a bit to see if anything happens with regard to the Emperor. Nor do I think he minds getting to take a look at the way the Republic and Jedi function. He can wait a long time to see what happens when it comes to the Emperor, he did wait 300 years for the Jedi Knight after all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

His final conversation is pretty great. Y'know, in that 'actually terrible and made me renew my confusion as to why I keep him around' kind of way.

 

Sorry there Skadge buddy, but when the best you can muster is 'I've decided you're sort of alright but I'll still kill you one day because lol', I'm going to continue wanting to introduce you to the airlock.

 

I might as well write a book titled 1,000 Ways to Kill Skadge :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Neither Scourge nor Skadge have anything on Ashara.

 

Just your average Jedi, hangin' out with her Dark Council buddy. And occasionally helping him murder Jedi. But she'll never betray her teachings, no siree.

 

She either has Stockholm Syndrome or is legitimately, clinically insane.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Neither Scourge nor Skadge have anything on Ashara.

 

Just your average Jedi, hangin' out with her Dark Council buddy. And occasionally helping him murder Jedi. But she'll never betray her teachings, no siree.

 

She either has Stockholm Syndrome or is legitimately, clinically insane.

 

Haha yep sounds like the same issue there. I can maybe understand that two characters, who are each others moral counterpart, would see the need to work together and be pragmatic in an extreme situation. But if, after the scenario, they remain each others moral counterpart, I don't see why they would voluntarily stick together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ashara seems to believe she's there to help the Empire and Republic come to some kind of lasting peace arrangement, and generally make the former less of a bunch of jerks. Which... sort of works if your Inquisitor is light side, I guess. Not that I'd any idea where Ashara got the idea that's what my majority-light-sided assassin was trying to accomplish, but sure. As dark side? Not so much.

 

There are several points about the Inqusitor story were it almost feels like the writer took a quick peek at the Warrior story and hastily scribbled down a few of it's plot points to later awkwardly jam into the Inquisitor story. This'd be one of them.

Edited by Bleeters
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ashara seems to believe she's there to help the Empire and Republic come to some kind of lasting peace arrangement, and generally make the former less of a bunch of jerks. Which... sort of works if your Inquisitor is light side, I guess. Not that I'd any idea where Ashara got the idea that's what my majority-light-sided assassin was trying to accomplish, but sure. As dark side? Not so much.

 

If Ashara had her way, there wouldn't so much be Republic and Empire making peace as the Republic surrendering and the Empire dominating the galaxy with an iron fist. It sort of channels Anakin Skywalker, with the whole wanting someone wise and powerful to make everyone else agree. The thing is, while she's very "Imperial" in terms of politics, she doesn't accept the current Empire's place in the moral compass, so she basically is looking to the Inquisitor to take charge and be the sort of benevolent dictator she wants. Of course, it still breaks down when Nox is out eating babies or doing whatever it is Dark V Sith do. But really, she's hardly unique in that regard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
Then there's also the amusement factor. As Scourge notes in one of his companion dialogues, he enjoys trying to plant seeds of doubt and darkness in a light-sided Jedi Knight, trying to cultivate the strength of the Sith in him/her, though he states that he's doing that "purely for his own amusement".

All the more reason to get rid of him surely?

 

Yes swap phone numbers in case the Emperor comes back, but don't let the maniac near your loved ones!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It all really depends on how you play your characters as to how bad some of your companions are.

If your an evil D-bag who enjoys killing puppies for the evils then Vette isn't a very good companion and hates pretty much everything you do. I was an evil D-bad, who just happened to be civil to her, she's not in love with me but she'll stick by my side, besides, who needs Vette when you've got a crazy Jaesa. :p

I've had very little problems with my companions, the only one who really didn't mesh well with me was Xalek, my SI followed a code, while Xalek was pretty much a killer with dark side powers.

When it came to Skadge, I made it clear that I was the boss, he was the grunt, and it was my way or the airlock. I wasn't overly rude, I just told him how it was. I had very few problems with him, just stroke his ego when it needs stroked and backhand him when he needs backhanded.

Ashara-my guy started light, went dark, and turned light after he got her. They didn't always agree, but they got along pretty well.

Scourge-My guy was hardcore light, Scourge was dark, we were allies against the true threat. He didn't like my way of doing things, but he accepted them. He's got my back because he's got nowhere else to go.

I'm only starting an Agent, but Vector just seems a little too...creepy for me...although that could be because I hate Killiks with a deep seated hatred...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Neither Scourge nor Skadge have anything on Ashara.

 

Just your average Jedi, hangin' out with her Dark Council buddy. And occasionally helping him murder Jedi. But she'll never betray her teachings, no siree.

 

She either has Stockholm Syndrome or is legitimately, clinically insane.

 

Hahah yeah I've started playing an Inquisitor now. How they thought this was OK is beyond me.

 

The fact that you can't turn Ashara like you can Jaesa is just laughable.

Edit: But also very tragic, since this is a major drawback for me. I like the story, but Khem and Andronikus already left me wanting. Gahhh.. Again: if you're gonna stick us with companions, you gotta make a damn good reason for it, or make sure we can mold them.

Edited by Wallner
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hahah yeah I've started playing an Inquisitor now. How they thought this was OK is beyond me.

 

The fact that you can't turn Ashara like you can Jaesa is just laughable.

Edit: But also very tragic, since this is a major drawback for me. I like the story, but Khem and Andronikus already left me wanting. Gahhh.. Again: if you're gonna stick us with companions, you gotta make a damn good reason for it, or make sure we can mold them.

 

You are looking it wrong way. Ashara is useful resource, a tool to be used for DS Inquisitor. You can get Sith apprentices from Korriban, but getting Jedi is much more problematic. Also I would say keeping her loyalty requires more manipulation than turning her to DS which is one time thing.

 

Oh, and if you actually go through her storyline she will embrace some elements of Sith code. Also she demonstrates her usefulness there by getting certain allies, I do wish something similar had been used in Kaggath.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are looking it wrong way. Ashara is useful resource, a tool to be used for DS Inquisitor. You can get Sith apprentices from Korriban, but getting Jedi is much more problematic. Also I would say keeping her loyalty requires more manipulation than turning her to DS which is one time thing.

 

Oh, and if you actually go through her storyline she will embrace some elements of Sith code. Also she demonstrates her usefulness there by getting certain allies, I do wish something similar had been used in Kaggath.

 

 

Well, that's one scenario, I guess you could choose to take her along with the aim not being to make her your apprentice, but instead tolerating her jedi ways while you were exploiting her skills andconnections.

 

But in the scene where you get Ashara, I specifically said that I would spare her if she agreed to become my apprentice. If I knew her character wouldn't be malleable, I wouldn't have brought her along, I would have killed her since she's a jedi.

 

I mean even the SW could turn Jaesa, and in the SI class bio it says "Due to their manipulative genius, Inquisitors are skilled at exploiting both their enemies and their allies to further their own personal agendas."

Edited by Wallner
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean even the SW could turn Jaesa, and in the SI class bio it says "Due to their manipulative genius, Inquisitors are skilled at exploiting both their enemies and their allies to further their own personal agendas."

My GF just went though the turning Jaesa storyline last night and now I have seen it, it isn't all that epic. Jaesa is a very fresh and impressionable jedi and she didn't really need much convincing to turn because she was never really convinced about the jedi in the first place.

 

Ashara is a true Jedi, so assuming they eventually do carry on the stories I can see us needing a lot of proper manipulation to turn her. But it better be a good story, and it better be in the next chapter (Whenever that may be).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...