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Suggested Mercenary/Commando Changes for 1.6

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Bounty Hunter > Mercenary
Suggested Mercenary/Commando Changes for 1.6

Spoletta's Avatar


Spoletta
11.28.2012 , 04:10 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
Run and Gun would be proc'd off of Rocket Punch, which is only a 9 second cooldown. so if need be, every 9s you could use 3 casted abilities as instants. use all 3 in a row, and that is 4.5s, and Rocket Punch is halfway done its cooldown already.

i think it would be very well balanced, especially in conjunction with the relatively wimpy knockback on Rocket Punch for Arsenal. it would allow the merc to create additional space. and after 3x instant tracers, heatseeker missiles, rail shot, and explosive dart, your opponent should be pretty dang close to dead. at that point use jet boost, and finish them off.
I still see some problem with this. After all a sniper while being able to do that must stay still to nuke you down, If this change to rocket punch was implemented there would 0 chances for a meele class to ever kill a commando. I charge and you knock me back, root and start running away while insta casting. Now i have to get back to you with the leap in cooldown and after having eat 3 nukes straight in the face. Even if for some reason i make it there alive you still have the knockback and a stun, and obviously you can do that again, after all it has only 9 sec cd.

Sorry as much as i agree that the commando need something, this would make them the new FOTM.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.28.2012 , 06:44 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Spoletta View Post
I still see some problem with this. After all a sniper while being able to do that must stay still to nuke you down, If this change to rocket punch was implemented there would 0 chances for a meele class to ever kill a commando. I charge and you knock me back, root and start running away while insta casting. Now i have to get back to you with the leap in cooldown and after having eat 3 nukes straight in the face. Even if for some reason i make it there alive you still have the knockback and a stun, and obviously you can do that again, after all it has only 9 sec cd.

Sorry as much as i agree that the commando need something, this would make them the new FOTM.
1. if youre using charge to initiate combat, youre doing it wrong.
2. the knockback on Rocket Punch is ~10m. damage breaks the root after 2s. and the knockback + root is only available to 1 spec.
3. melee classes dont have slows/root/stuns of their own?

merc would no longer be a free kill if what i proposed happens. apparently that idea is unpopular with a lot of people

Nassik's Avatar


Nassik
11.28.2012 , 08:01 PM | #33
Like I said, no one wants a fighting merc. Players are used to the easy kills and anything that would change that would disrupt game balance. The game's current balance is that mercs are free kills. If you change that, you make mercs over-powered (to some people).
July 21st 2011.. The Dark Day Bioware pissed on Australia with a little yellow paragraph.

I used to be part of the Community, now I'm just Australian

Spoletta's Avatar


Spoletta
11.29.2012 , 12:14 PM | #34
Man i'm trying to help this class, and just so you know i'm an healer, i couldn't be more unbiased in this matter.
You are not going to obtain anything with unreasonable requests.
Well you are probably not going to obtain anything even with reasonable ones, but there is still a glimmer of hope .

Having such a skill on a 9 sec cooldown is too much, no matter how you look at it. Now if you were to give commandos a skill with a 45 sec cd that makes the next stock strike have those effects then we can get somewhere.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.29.2012 , 08:41 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Spoletta View Post
Man i'm trying to help this class, and just so you know i'm an healer, i couldn't be more unbiased in this matter.
You are not going to obtain anything with unreasonable requests.
Well you are probably not going to obtain anything even with reasonable ones, but there is still a glimmer of hope .

Having such a skill on a 9 sec cooldown is too much, no matter how you look at it. Now if you were to give commandos a skill with a 45 sec cd that makes the next stock strike have those effects then we can get somewhere.
45s cooldown? not sure if serious.

Mercs would be *required* to be within melee range to get the effect of Run and Gun. which means they are coming under attack from at least one, possibly multiple melee opponents. the knock-back effect would only be available to the Arsenal spec which, even with all the changes i suggested, would be a sub-par PvP spec to Pyrotech.



do you not play a merc? while i appreciate your opinion, if you have not played a Merc at high-level end game PvP, you do not really understand what the problems with the class are. its performance against bad pugs is irrelevant; that is not how you balance a game. you balance a game based on the highest level of play, where the balance is actually important and highly visible.

i have to play at an obnoxiously high skill level in order to compete with even bad FOTM players.

and ive said this multiple times: damage output does not suddenly magnify when casted abilities activate instantly. the difference is Merc would actually be able to use those abilities when they are having lightsabers inserted into their rectum.

NinjaBlunt's Avatar


NinjaBlunt
11.30.2012 , 07:43 PM | #36
I am currently leveling a merc atm but i thought id weigh in with a 50 jugg/ 50 assassins point of view mercs/commandos need simple changes to make them competitive. Having two melee 50s doing end game pvp i can say everything u are asking isnt even close to asking for to much, these changes are a great start and its nice to see the community reacting so well to it. Now as far as the rocket punch knockback i can tell u that 9 sec cd for something like that is not only needed but the class will be broken with out something of its nature. lets face it mercs are a long range dps/heal with no utilities to keep melee at bay. I cant tell you how many times im able to kill a arsenal merc without him getting a shot off (besides insta casts) as melee i have multiple utilities to keep u in range. Mercs/commandos need this and im all for it i hope to get knockback stunned post 1.6 cant say it'll help the unskilled but thats the point isnt it as you said u have to be more skilled than your opponents to be equal with them and thats not right. Mercs need help or they will continue to be the laughing stock of pvp. btw the chicken idea is awesome

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.01.2012 , 01:52 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by NinjaBlunt View Post
I am currently leveling a merc atm but i thought id weigh in with a 50 jugg/ 50 assassins point of view mercs/commandos need simple changes to make them competitive. Having two melee 50s doing end game pvp i can say everything u are asking isnt even close to asking for to much, these changes are a great start and its nice to see the community reacting so well to it. Now as far as the rocket punch knockback i can tell u that 9 sec cd for something like that is not only needed but the class will be broken with out something of its nature. lets face it mercs are a long range dps/heal with no utilities to keep melee at bay. I cant tell you how many times im able to kill a arsenal merc without him getting a shot off (besides insta casts) as melee i have multiple utilities to keep u in range. Mercs/commandos need this and im all for it i hope to get knockback stunned post 1.6 cant say it'll help the unskilled but thats the point isnt it as you said u have to be more skilled than your opponents to be equal with them and thats not right. Mercs need help or they will continue to be the laughing stock of pvp. btw the chicken idea is awesome
thanks for you support!

mandoforlife's Avatar


mandoforlife
12.02.2012 , 04:44 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Nassik View Post
Like I said, no one wants a fighting merc. Players are used to the easy kills and anything that would change that would disrupt game balance. The game's current balance is that mercs are free kills. If you change that, you make mercs over-powered (to some people).
This is unfortunately exactly what I see happening. Once we get a buff that actually gives us a fair chance, people will be crying OP because they can't kill us as fast and as effortlessly as they used to. Even if the buff put us in a perfect spot, many would cry OP, especially because those of us who have stuck with the class have developed excellent skill and survival talent (only we are missing the tools to make those skills effective).
Vamark Skirata 55 Mercenary <Meet Killface>
Sirsuitntie Sorcerer - Jatne Operative - Zaavar Assassin - Alsaire Marauder
The Bastion

mandoforlife's Avatar


mandoforlife
12.02.2012 , 04:50 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
45s cooldown? not sure if serious.

Mercs would be *required* to be within melee range to get the effect of Run and Gun. which means they are coming under attack from at least one, possibly multiple melee opponents. the knock-back effect would only be available to the Arsenal spec which, even with all the changes i suggested, would be a sub-par PvP spec to Pyrotech.



do you not play a merc? while i appreciate your opinion, if you have not played a Merc at high-level end game PvP, you do not really understand what the problems with the class are. its performance against bad pugs is irrelevant; that is not how you balance a game. you balance a game based on the highest level of play, where the balance is actually important and highly visible.

i have to play at an obnoxiously high skill level in order to compete with even bad FOTM players.

and ive said this multiple times: damage output does not suddenly magnify when casted abilities activate instantly. the difference is Merc would actually be able to use those abilities when they are having lightsabers inserted into their rectum.
I agree. Having Run and Gun attached to rocket punch would not be OP. I wouldn't risk my safety to walk all the way up to my target just to proc 3 instant-cast abilities. I currently only use rocket punch when I am confronted in close range, and that wouldn't change. People are just disgusted by the thought of a mercenary actually fighting back.
On an off note, I think pyros could use a little love in the escape department also, but that's a different story.
Vamark Skirata 55 Mercenary <Meet Killface>
Sirsuitntie Sorcerer - Jatne Operative - Zaavar Assassin - Alsaire Marauder
The Bastion

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.02.2012 , 08:05 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by mandoforlife View Post
I agree. Having Run and Gun attached to rocket punch would not be OP. I wouldn't risk my safety to walk all the way up to my target just to proc 3 instant-cast abilities. I currently only use rocket punch when I am confronted in close range, and that wouldn't change. People are just disgusted by the thought of a mercenary actually fighting back.
On an off note, I think pyros could use a little love in the escape department also, but that's a different story.
i have suggested that Energy Shield for Pyrotechs be able to not only remove current root/slows, but provide immunity to those effects for the full duration of Energy Shield. that should be enough of an escape mechanism without adding in a whole new ability.