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Gamebreaking behaviour within hardmode flashpoints

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Gamebreaking behaviour within hardmode flashpoints

Geseb_Var's Avatar


Geseb_Var
11.28.2012 , 12:59 PM | #61
Every time I tank a place, I ask the group if they want to fully clear a place, or if they want me to skip what I know I can skip. If even ONE person says they want to complete all the bosses I have every intention of doing it. If people don't like it then fine, I'm a tank I get replacements pretty darn fast :P
The Var Legacy
Lizzi - Human Sorceror | Geseb - Cyborg Juggernaut | Rindern - Miraluka Assassin | Wirken - Miraluka Sniper

Willhousefour's Avatar


Willhousefour
11.28.2012 , 01:34 PM | #62
I think this issue is being overblown. I think this is only an problem for Taral 5 (republic only) and Battle for Ilum where you end up skipping more bosses than fighting. You can skip one boss in Directive 7 (but you still have to kill 4 others). Are you including bonus mission bosses, because no one wants to do those. So maybe Taral 5 and Ilum need to be tweaked, but I can't think of any other major offender.

Also, I don't consider sub-bosses to be a reliable way to gear up. The loot table seems to contain every possible class/spec so getting the drop for your class/spec is a crap-shoot. Fast FPs get you faster commendations that you can turn in for the gear you want. I've suggested being able to do the daily dropbox quest multiple times a day but only 7 times a week, so you can maximize your FP time when queues are fast. This would allow you to get coms faster and gear up faster.

ChicagoBearsFan's Avatar


ChicagoBearsFan
11.28.2012 , 02:21 PM | #63
I have a few well geared 50s and I think I speak for MOST others that we are more than happy to help kill a boss (after all they don't take long to kill) if you want something from it. After all, we have been in your shoes before. If you get a group that refuses then they are jerks (there are no shortage of them in this game). You were unlucky that time(put them on ignore if you want to avoid groups with them in future) but I would wager to guess that the next group would be more willing to help. Part of the fun of this game is gearing up even if it is a small upgrade and some people need to be reminded of that. Sadly, all to many people are just selfish and don't want to help others.

However, that being said. I would echo some of the other posts that the FREE recruit set that you get now is WAY better than the original set from pre-1.4 and is as good (if not better) than full Tionese. Therefore, skipping bosses to the final boss and going for the last drop and getting your BH comms is a better use of time... which is WHY many people don't want to spend the time on bosses that drop gear you are most likely to cast off in a few days or weeks.

At the beginning of the FP.. kindly ask "I need gear, can we please kill bosses?" more often than not... people are ok with that.

toyfanatic's Avatar


toyfanatic
11.28.2012 , 03:05 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by WillCaedes View Post
You wanna gear up at end-game? Find a good raiding guild to carry you through some SM EV or SM KP. The only real benefits of HM FP's right now is the Black Hole comms, unless they change drops.
I also like Unitz comment on gentlemanly behavoir to fellow players.
But the truth is Icestar - WillCaedes is right. Many 50's who cue only do HM FP for the coms. They are either saving up for a Hazmat piece or a extra piece of BH gear to modrip.
For those of us who have played since beta, we rember when columi was good. But since the Devs's fixed the loot drop several patches ago to go of party composition, the fp grind is no longer tedious. Anext patch might make HM FP obsolite. The Dev's in their finite wisdom will give a full set of tionese to all 50's that combined with the already free MK-2 recruit will equal SM OPS ready straight from fresh 50.
Find a active guild. Easy as that, I don't tank for non-family. The players in a guild WILL help any new player progress in loot and skill.
Having two geared Shadow tanks I have run all the FP's into the ground. Both tanks are in campain or hazmat, so the only thing I run HM's FP for is the 5 coms at the end. If we are doing a gear run for a new member , the rest of the group is doing the run for the BH coms aswell.
So an example of a good HM FP to skip? Tarel 5, the first boss doesn't drop any columi or tionese. The second boss drops one piece of tionese. But due to the story mechanics of T5 you must kill the second boss and his pet. The third boss - is the boss with mutagenic adds. It only drops a daily com and crystal. Its a waste of time to do. The four boss is the First boss worth doing. The giant droid drops a columi belt or implant. It also has a chance to drop some random piece of exotech. Oooh exotech - columi stats with out a set bounus. Come on. The final boss after defeat drops the runs sole dedicated columi token. If you were with a fairly skilled group it can be busted out in under 30 min.
So for the group that carried you they got 5 BH coms for helping you out and you got 5 BH coms. Not bad for 30 min worth of work. But lets say we take the original posters advice and do a clean sweep. The undergaered person will always die on one or two strong mobs because the healer can't reasonably carrie them at all times. On the first boss fight the undergeared player will die because of the fight mechanics of how the two hounds use the treat table. And after you burn dowm the first boss for basically the sheer joy of it. To the groups excitement no columi loot. The bounus boss is the same in this FP unless the group is uber geared the lightning attacks make it guarenteed wipefest.
So was it worth killing all bosses? I think not - when the loot drops and the repair bills add up.
What about the F2P players? They can't use artifact quality loot that drops. The F2P requires new players to buy the cartel coin consumable to use the drops. The F2P players only get three rolls a week, so why tease them untill the token drops at the final boss? Go strait to the end and grab the tokens and finish.
Would the original poster go through D7 and fight the bounus boss and the optinal boss? I hope not . Would they also fight all the trash manka cats in EV SM at the puzzle boss? Or all the mobs right before Karaga in SM KP? Since those ops are in group finder I used the the reference. That could add a hour or more to the instance but will the reward be better? The reward is the same either way. Why get frustrated?
Its not woth more than doing it a speed run.

BanPearson's Avatar


BanPearson
11.28.2012 , 08:38 PM | #65
To sum up the results of the discussion so far:
  • either approach is perfectly fine
  • When a group is composed of people who want different things, not everybody can be satisfied. It's not possible. Thus it's best to avoid that.
  • There is no agreement at all on which side has exclusive access to the group finder. There is no rule about that, and speculation about how it's "intended" to be used, which makes "more sense" or the likes will not ever yield any result, because there are no absolute criteria on which to base such a rule.

So this seems to be the most logical flow:
  1. Try to find a group in general chat that shares the same approach (skipping or not). If you find it, problem solved, otherwise:
  2. Use groupfinder. Ask in the group if they want to skip or not. If all share the same goal, problem solved. Otherwise:
  3. Get angry, call each other names, possibly ragequit - pretty much the same as in this thread

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
11.29.2012 , 06:26 AM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by toyfanatic View Post
But the truth is Icestar - WillCaedes is right. Many 50's who cue only do HM FP for the coms.
I know that many of the level 50s that do HM FP does not care about what they do there, they only want to do their tokenrun and be done with it.

I am lifting this to the community and to Bioware because it is a gamebreaker for some players especially new, that wants to have a good time while playing.

Steamrolling through content and skipping bosses might not be that much fun, and I am sure there is much that can be done about this through future gamemechanics to please both sides.

Good constructive discussions everyone, keep it up

Belarm's Avatar


Belarm
11.29.2012 , 06:56 AM | #67
Give us nightmare FPs.

ChicagoBearsFan's Avatar


ChicagoBearsFan
11.29.2012 , 07:26 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Icestar View Post
I am lifting this to the community and to Bioware because it is a gamebreaker for some players especially new, that wants to have a good time while playing
Whoa....whoa...whoa....Heaven forbid that we have fun PLAYING the game while we play, rather than playing "paper dolls" and dressing up our characters.
Bearsfan - Commando Healer / DPS
Chicago - Shadow Tank
BeÓrs - Scoundrel Healer
<The Jedi of Camelot>JawaSpanker Legacy ~ POT5 Server

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
11.29.2012 , 07:39 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by ChicagoBearsFan View Post
Whoa....whoa...whoa....Heaven forbid that we have fun PLAYING the game while we play, rather than playing "paper dolls" and dressing up our characters.
I have teamed up with new and old players that has had a less enjoyable experience with those "fast run token chasers". I always ask in the start of the flashpoint because I am fine with either way, but some only assume things to work a certain way and get very upset when people do not agree with them,

So I would say that joining groupfinder should have the optimal setting for everyone to have a good time, at this moment as we have seen ingame and throughout the posts in this thread it does not work that way.

ChicagoBearsFan's Avatar


ChicagoBearsFan
11.29.2012 , 07:46 AM | #70
Agree ^
Bearsfan - Commando Healer / DPS
Chicago - Shadow Tank
BeÓrs - Scoundrel Healer
<The Jedi of Camelot>JawaSpanker Legacy ~ POT5 Server