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Seriously Devs with the OP Powertechs/Vanguards

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Seriously Devs with the OP Powertechs/Vanguards

bglodt's Avatar


bglodt
11.24.2012 , 06:40 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
you're splitting hairs. all the PT does is spam the 100 application abil or the railshot. yeah. he hits other buttons too. I'm not making little of his responsibilities, but the reality is that you will be perma slowed. you'll always have that dot on you unless he miraculously runs out of ammo/overheats (which can happen). I commando heal. I can slow him with kolto while simultaneously cleansing his dots. he's still going to get combustible gas chamber on me at will...or he's really bad at the class. PT/VG is the one class I cannot kite. iunno what other proof you need. I can handle every other class. I'm not fail. no decent PT is going to let you off his dot/slow hook once you're inside his 10m range.
I would have to agree with you...but if this is the one class you cannot kite, and you've said you can kite every other class/AC.... Then as far as kiting goes, that's balance. There should really never be a time when a single AC of any class can say, "I can kite/kill/chain cc every single other class or AC". IMHO there should always be 25% of the available classes that are relatively "immune" to being dominated by a single AC. That way the AC in question can say yea I destroy stuff, but I in turn get destroyed by "x". Ill tell you what as a full WH vanguard whether in either of three ACs, I get tore up by assassins, and ops. As long as the sentinel has GBTF on cooldown, or one of his others on CD, it's pretty close either way. But if we are both fresh... Even with kiting they have the edge.

Cleanse classes actually require some work because 1 cleanse/purge is three ammo wasted, 6 if I want to reapply. And to be honest ammo is an issue with assault/pyro spec. If you want the biggest bang, all upfront... Your using up ammo quick. Which means if you survive my initial onslaught, I'm not doing much damage for awhile. Otherwise I'm doing less burst, but more sustained . Just sayin.... What were we originally talkin about? Idunno!
Zenick Bladeborne, 50 Vanguard, Tranquility, JC
Zenfor Bladeborne, 50 Jedi Sentinel, Tranquility, JC

I play the vaunted 31/31/31 spec... It's not that good though.

bglodt's Avatar


bglodt
11.24.2012 , 06:51 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Lalainnia View Post
When did people come up with PT/VG are squishy, they srsly arent squishy... A sorc is squishy, a concealment/leathlity operative is squishy. When I see pyropts die most of the time its from multiple people dogpiling on them or a tanksin. PyroPts and AssaultVGs are not squishy...
What are you talking about.... They have one bad def cooldown.., 1! And no escape mechanic! They are squishy. If it takes a dog pile to kill one... That dogpile is all in recruit gear and all spamming their free attack. VG/pt is kill or be killed. They are a dps race class... That's it. That's why they are easy to play. You have 1def cooldown. After you hit that you concentrate on dps.... That's it. Even lolsmash specs have to click their 3 def cooldowns.... And figure out when to force camo to escape...

Seriously... If you think they are not squishy... You either need better gear... Or need to push more buttons. I beat other classes because I have a good rotation, know when to stun, and know when to interrupt, not because I have good defenders. A lot of sents/maras beat other classes because the ha e so many defensive abilities.... And an escape... AND good damage!

If you want to say they have high burst.., fine say it, because we do... (They do need AP and PG on same CD tbh)... But if your going to say they have high survivability you need to think again.... Seriously in tank spec and tank gear..... I don't have high survivability!!!
Zenick Bladeborne, 50 Vanguard, Tranquility, JC
Zenfor Bladeborne, 50 Jedi Sentinel, Tranquility, JC

I play the vaunted 31/31/31 spec... It's not that good though.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
11.24.2012 , 07:11 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by bglodt View Post
I would have to agree with you...but if this is the one class you cannot kite, and you've said you can kite every other class/AC.... Then as far as kiting goes, that's balance. There should really never be a time when a single AC of any class can say, "I can kite/kill/chain cc every single other class or AC". IMHO there should always be 25% of the available classes that are relatively "immune" to being dominated by a single AC. That way the AC in question can say yea I destroy stuff, but I in turn get destroyed by "x". Ill tell you what as a full WH vanguard whether in either of three ACs, I get tore up by assassins, and ops. As long as the sentinel has GBTF on cooldown, or one of his others on CD, it's pretty close either way. But if we are both fresh... Even with kiting they have the edge.

Cleanse classes actually require some work because 1 cleanse/purge is three ammo wasted, 6 if I want to reapply. And to be honest ammo is an issue with assault/pyro spec. If you want the biggest bang, all upfront... Your using up ammo quick. Which means if you survive my initial onslaught, I'm not doing much damage for awhile. Otherwise I'm doing less burst, but more sustained . Just sayin.... What were we originally talkin about? Idunno!
oh. I'm not crying nerf. although I do think it stupid that they took the uniqueness away from VGs by zapping their range. the truth is, they're hybrids. they should be hybrids. it's the 100^ application of plasma cell from ion pulse that is/was OP. it's not now. they "fixed" it a different way. they also screwed over VGs with cryo grenade. now snipers are off limits.
A legacy of meh
Krackerjšck/Krackerjak (VG/PT) | Krackerjack/Deinon (Mando/Merc) | Dežnon (Jugg) | other stuffs
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

Evuo's Avatar


Evuo
11.24.2012 , 09:07 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
you're splitting hairs. all the PT does is spam the 100 application abil or the railshot. yeah. he hits other buttons too. I'm not making little of his responsibilities, but the reality is that you will be perma slowed. you'll always have that dot on you unless he miraculously runs out of ammo/overheats (which can happen). I commando heal. I can slow him with kolto while simultaneously cleansing his dots. he's still going to get combustible gas chamber on me at will...or he's really bad at the class. PT/VG is the one class I cannot kite. iunno what other proof you need. I can handle every other class. I'm not fail. no decent PT is going to let you off his dot/slow hook once you're inside his 10m range.
Maybe you didn't catch the explanation in my previous post. Actually the reality is far from that notion of 100% slow uptime. I've just pointed out that Sweltering Heat is not guarenteed to apply its effects consecutively.

Here is the best theoretical scernario with no combat lag (unrealistic):

0.00 Successful application via FB,RS, UL, or Rapid Shots (No PPA Proc if using FB)
1.50 Reapplication via FB,RS, UL, or Rapid Shots (No PPA Proc if using FB)
3.00 Railshot (Superheated Rail reapplication)
4.50 Successful application via FB,RS, UL, or Rapid Shots (PPA Proc if using FB is fine)
6.00 Reapplication via FB,RS, UL, or Rapid Shots (PPA Proc if using FB is needed)
8.00 PPA Railshot (Superheated Rail application)
10.00 Successful application via FB,RS, UL, or Rapid Shots (PPA Proc cannot occur as it is on ICD)
12.00 Reapplication via FB (PPA Proc needed)
14.00 PPA Rail Shot (Superheated Rail application)
etc.

Outside of the fact combat lag exists (including both latency and animations, e.g. railshot has a longer animation than flame burst), this situation is relying on incredible RNG of getting PPA procs and Not getting PPA procs at a certain time. Halfway through the scenario, you must now wait an extra .5 seconds to the maximum duration of your slow so that your PPA is available to be procced at the 12 second mark. Additionally, this scenario doesn't allow for the use of any other abilities on the GCD outside of those listed.

TLDR: Spamming Flame Burst or using any other abilty that can proc CGC (outside of Superheated Rail skill Railshot) will not apply sweltering heat after two times, and a slow that is not up 100% of the time cannot be categorized as a perma slow.

If you don't believe me go to a target dummy, try to your heart's content.

You want an example of a perma slow, just spec AP and grab the Hamstring skill. You can spam retractable blade over and over, the slow will always apply.

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
11.24.2012 , 09:20 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Lalainnia View Post
When did people come up with PT/VG are squishy, they srsly arent squishy... A sorc is squishy, a concealment/leathlity operative is squishy. When I see pyropts die most of the time its from multiple people dogpiling on them or a tanksin. PyroPts and AssaultVGs are not squishy...
As someone with a mara, PT and sorc at max level- a sorc is insanely squishy, a dps PT is not squishy compared to them.

However- compare a marauder to a dps PT and a PT is very squishy in comparison.