Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Sorcerer in PVP, Weak

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Sorcerer in PVP, Weak

lokdron's Avatar


lokdron
11.22.2012 , 08:48 PM | #11
The thing is bioware forgot the cannon part of glass cannon when designing the class.
You have seen it, you have felt it within you as you have traveled with me. The growing anger, the rage, and the power it brings. Yet the power does not build without struggle. Through small cruelties greater ones are born. Kriea/Darth Traya
Dark side eye topic make your voice heard if you want canon movie sith eyes!

verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
11.23.2012 , 12:59 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by AdmiralParmesan View Post
First of all the post is completely inaccurate but there are so many problems with it I will break it down for you.

Burst is what matters in pvp whether it is AOE or single target. Even if sorcs had the single target burst marauders have they still would not be as good as marauders. This is actually because of several reasons. First of all Sorc damage is unreliable. All of our good damage eventually relies on casting, which every class in the game has an interrupt off global cooldown so casting is not always an option. Due to our low defenses we are required to kite melee in order to survive, however since our casts make us immobile we can not produce good damage while kiting. Marauder has excellent defenses, reliable damage, excellent burst and THE BEST GROUP PVP UTILITY IN GAME. Even if marauders were the worst class in the game, they would still be taken for predation in rated groups.

You see while dotting up several targets using affliction looks nice on the damage board it doesn't contribute to the kill. You seem to believe that this AOE justifies the class, but in actuality the sorc aoe abilities are only good for pointlessly spreading damage over time. Forcestorm does low damage and leaves you immobile, and affliction tab dotting hardly causes a threat. Chain lightning only hits hard off of crit in full lightning spec, and you can only get a proc for it off of casts. So that leaves deathfeild as our best aoe ability, which that move alone far from justifies a sorc DPS in rated.


Sustained AOE does not matter in ranked when high burst focus fire nets a good team kills in seconds. Sustained AOE might get you the numbers at the end of the match, but in reality you did little else other than slightly pressure the enemy team.
In a spectacular display of pvper narrow-mindness you totally missed my point.

All of what you say is indeed true. If its a situation that requires bursting down someone, sorc is not there. Survivability IS laughable in PvP. But the aoe remains, and must still he considered.

You cannot either make it a proverbial glass cannon without making OP for PvE, or significantly lowering sustained to balance the new burst.

You raise a good point about lightning, it has to move too much. Its a sniper, without the defense and cover mechanic, with actually longer cast and less burst. Making more instant, making lightning a very bursty class would probably help, or give it mechanics to be able to stand its ground and cast without hugging the wall like a lost frightened kitten.

But you need to place it higher in the tree, or you go back to the first hybrid, which had too much sustained/burst combo.

And weither you like it or not, a class that can unleash powerful AoEs does need to compensate somewhere. The way they currently do it, yah its not working. Polarity shift got slightly better, but the fact you'll be dead after one cast doesnt exactly makes it awesome. Quick self heal is nice as well, but it only buys you a few seconds in fight, and i mostly use it to quickly heal up after a fight to avoid losing time seething if another node is under attack.

Madness and hybrid gives you mobility, and currently are the "sole" option in PvP, even if a lightning spec left alone can hurt a lot, they are pretty much never left alone.

But, out of warzones there are also PvE ops, and unless you want merc and snipers to start qqing they are not as good as sorc for ranged dps and being disregarded in favor of a sorc due to that, you will want it done right, or all that is going to happen is another nerf eventually, and we'll be back to where we are now.

I agree some group utility would be nice, recklessness effect on force lightning should be revised (nice crits, but give use something more imo. Either on FL, or make it able to cast that force storm with no channel, at the cost of both charge why not? Can also be a talent for lightning tree that makes it do that)

That would be a way to actually add some dps, still be AoE strong and then you are free to focus a particular target caught in the storm.

Some ideas, but always, if you fix pvp and screw pve, you are back to case one, maybe in a month, or a year, but the fall will be even more brutal, with even more people who have a sorc as their main rage quitting.

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
11.23.2012 , 03:05 AM | #13
In case im mistake sorcs are already fairly behind in pvp and pve as dps. Ideas to not effect the nature of pve much while making positive changes for pvp are in fact possible. Heres such an idea.

Take for example Force storm. Making it instant cast would be great, but wouldn't help the class much if recklessness was used doing it as you suggest. Similarly it would be too big on an increase to PVE AOE damage if you could instant cast force lightning and hard cast force lightning on the same spot in PVE. Instead you could make a separate cooldown picked up high in the lightning tree for an instant cast force storm. When the cooldown is used on force storm it will put force storm on cooldown for say 40seconds (obviously this exact number could be changed)

Now the specific numbers aside this would moderately boost lightning's PVE single target damage which is a boost it needs to catch up to the other dps specs. In addition it would be a good kiting tool for lightning in pvp and a decent way to maybe get a lightning storm proc while being pressured.

Loladarulz's Avatar


Loladarulz
11.23.2012 , 04:56 AM | #14
My brother plays sorcerer and he melts people pretty fast, there are no shiny 6k crits but he consistently does good damage. He can crit heals for 6k tho.
He kills the target often faster then my focus sentinel because he is ranged, and my sent has trouble hitting moving targets. And lastly sorcerers have excellent utility.
Their weakness is that they are squishy and that should not change really. Sorcerers are probably the best balanced class imo.

wwkingms's Avatar


wwkingms
11.23.2012 , 06:38 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Loladarulz View Post
My brother plays sorcerer and he melts people pretty fast, there are no shiny 6k crits but he consistently does good damage. He can crit heals for 6k tho.
He kills the target often faster then my focus sentinel because he is ranged, and my sent has trouble hitting moving targets. And lastly sorcerers have excellent utility.
Their weakness is that they are squishy and that should not change really. Sorcerers are probably the best balanced class imo.
LMAO

this SENTINEL thinks sorcs are fine


trolololololol
NIHIL

THE BASTION

Loladarulz's Avatar


Loladarulz
11.23.2012 , 06:41 AM | #16
Sorcs are fine, learn some manners. I also played Mercenary and I know when the class is subpar.

verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
11.23.2012 , 08:50 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by AdmiralParmesan View Post
In case im mistake sorcs are already fairly behind in pvp and pve as dps. Ideas to not effect the nature of pve much while making positive changes for pvp are in fact possible. Heres such an idea.

Take for example Force storm. Making it instant cast would be great, but wouldn't help the class much if recklessness was used doing it as you suggest. Similarly it would be too big on an increase to PVE AOE damage if you could instant cast force lightning and hard cast force lightning on the same spot in PVE. Instead you could make a separate cooldown picked up high in the lightning tree for an instant cast force storm. When the cooldown is used on force storm it will put force storm on cooldown for say 40seconds (obviously this exact number could be changed)

Now the specific numbers aside this would moderately boost lightning's PVE single target damage which is a boost it needs to catch up to the other dps specs. In addition it would be a good kiting tool for lightning in pvp and a decent way to maybe get a lightning storm proc while being pressured.
As said, make it talented if need be, putting FS on cd for 40 sec though is just gimping back AoE damage.

You could also talent lightning barrage to be able to apply to force storm with a tier 5 talent linked to it.

The "link to recklessness" would just make the sorc's burst linked to its AoE, which I do believe should be considered as the class signature dps basic. Obviously, number should be ran to make sure its not OP, but I do not think a burst linked to AoE every 1,5 minutes would raise PvE DPS to an exagerated dps number. Obviously, there needs to be e mechanic to prevent catimg a force storm over it, but I don't think it should warrant a CD longer than 6-10 seconds. Remember safe lightning effusion, the force cost of an instant force storm would be very hefty on a madness-spec.

But it would be a way to keep group pressure around a node, ball carrier etc and not being "rooted" in to place, giving you that burst you need, not through revamping the whole numbers, but applying an attack over another.

Currently with my gear I do about 1,1k dps. If i had a FS over that, its a 1,8k dps burst over 6 seconds, then its unavailaible for 1,5 minutes. I don't think its too much overkill, but maybe I'm wrong. I simply find its a good way to play on the class strenght, while fixing some issues.

TrumpetNut's Avatar


TrumpetNut
11.23.2012 , 09:34 AM | #18
I think sorc is definetely underpowered or whatever you guys call it but on my sorc I have gotten really good at rotating my abilities.

lokdron's Avatar


lokdron
11.23.2012 , 11:00 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Loladarulz View Post
My brother plays sorcerer and he melts people pretty fast, there are no shiny 6k crits but he consistently does good damage. He can crit heals for 6k tho.
He kills the target often faster then my focus sentinel because he is ranged, and my sent has trouble hitting moving targets. And lastly sorcerers have excellent utility.
Their weakness is that they are squishy and that should not change really. Sorcerers are probably the best balanced class imo.
A sorc kills a target faster than a focus sent? Really now? I highely doubt that and I did not roll dps to be utility I rolled dps to dps and there other classes like sniper and marauader who has better dps and utility.
You have seen it, you have felt it within you as you have traveled with me. The growing anger, the rage, and the power it brings. Yet the power does not build without struggle. Through small cruelties greater ones are born. Kriea/Darth Traya
Dark side eye topic make your voice heard if you want canon movie sith eyes!

AngusFTW's Avatar


AngusFTW
11.23.2012 , 12:40 PM | #20
sorcs sustained dps is fine it just lacks burst IMO. When teamed with a good burst dps there dps is very effective if you're the sole dps on the team things can get a bit hairy especially against multiple healers.. Good dps sorc shouldn't be eating hits when played correctly ofc they can b e taken down really fast but thats just the nature of the class.
Tomb of Freedon Nadd
55s.
Bleezar, Bleezár. Bleezlórd. Bleezard. Bleezford, Bleeznaut, Bleezfatt,
Lowbies
Bleezbian, Bleezguard, Bleezdian

vid
twitch