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Cunning or Aim?


CJNJ's Avatar


CJNJ
11.30.2012 , 06:19 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Sippix View Post
No, dude...Cunning only adds to Tech Bonus Damage and Tech Critical Rating for a BH/Trooper. Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt is a "white attack", meaning the roll is generated from the Ranged attack table. Ranged attacks are NOT the same as Tech attacks and do not share roll tables.

To recap:
"White attacks" are Ranged attacks = Rail Shot, Rapid Shots, Unload

"Yellow attacks" are Tech attacks = Flame Burst, Explosive Dart, Flame Thrower, Flame Sweep, Thermal Detonator, Incendiary Missile, Immolate, Heat Blast, Retractable Blade, and all Internal/Elemental DOT's.

Also, you should never be stacking Primary stats over Secondary stats for DPS PT. Yes, for PVE, you pick up Steely Resolve, but that is only because it passively increases Ranged/Tech Bonus Damage and Critical Rating (where burst from TD is not as useful).

In addition to the aforementioned, any DPS PT running outside of an RS build (Either AP or Pyro) is wasting their character slot. Therefor, you want to use only Aim as your Primary stat for the increase to Ranged stats.
Just curious, but did you even bother reading what was posted? Don't get me wrong i still stack mainstat only, but to say there is no benefit from getting alittle bit of cunning(which the crit DR is nowhere near that of aim by now) at the loss of a small amount of range damage and crit, which only affects like 1 move really(RS) as you don't use unload,and rapid shots is just filler. Because of the DR you get off of mainstat crit, it can be beneficial to switch out a mod or 2 from aim to cunning
CJuice Sandwich-lazy sage seer || Cmeat Sandwich- fat blind engi sniper
lil'cmeat Sandwich- it's a lil Cmeat! Gunslinger || Naked-snake- looks more like plissken, scoundrel
Laziness is a skill

Sippix's Avatar


Sippix
12.01.2012 , 11:23 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by CJNJ View Post
Just curious, but did you even bother reading what was posted? Don't get me wrong i still stack mainstat only, but to say there is no benefit from getting alittle bit of cunning(which the crit DR is nowhere near that of aim by now) at the loss of a small amount of range damage and crit, which only affects like 1 move really(RS) as you don't use unload,and rapid shots is just filler. Because of the DR you get off of mainstat crit, it can be beneficial to switch out a mod or 2 from aim to cunning
There is no benefit from stacking any Cunning outside of Datacron collecting. Also, I don't know about you, but my Rapid Shots hits as hard as my Flame Burst, costs no heat, and does not have a CD. The only thing it doesn't do is proc CGC every time I use it. If you're not using Rapid Shots regularly in your rotation, then you're not playing Pyro right.

You shouldn't even be stacking Aim to begin with, since end-game gear can be min/max'd to provide more secondary stats than stacking Aim would be able to provide. I only have ~1540 Aim, yet I DESTROY in PVP and PVE. It's not even funny how much damage I do to players with 1.3k+ Expertise.

There's a reason why no one stacks cunning outside of Datacrons - It's worthless, and if you're stacking Aim, please learn to min/max properly.
Malkiv Mayhem
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Vacarius's Avatar


Vacarius
12.01.2012 , 11:34 PM | #23
I'd advise looking at the link he suggested. On first impressions I'd agree with you, but always worth working out what they're on about. I remember when I thought alacrity was useless, only to be proven wrong by the mathematicians.

Reading the thread it looks to be aimed at a very specific spec for snipers, so would be interesting to see if other classes could benefit in certain specs.
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CJNJ's Avatar


CJNJ
12.02.2012 , 02:21 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Vacarius View Post
I'd advise looking at the link he suggested. On first impressions I'd agree with you, but always worth working out what they're on about. I remember when I thought alacrity was useless, only to be proven wrong by the mathematicians.

Reading the thread it looks to be aimed at a very specific spec for snipers, so would be interesting to see if other classes could benefit in certain specs.
Yeah, the only sniper spec where you might take aim is if you go full MM, as all the damage in that spec comes from white damage, except for orbital strike.

To the other poster I like what you did with that "stacking aim" thing I said. The original poster was only referring between aim and cunning, so I only referred to those 2 stats. To be honest the whole cunning thing is ment for endgame pve, something that somebody with 1600 aim and 1.3k expertise wouldn't be doing. Another thing you would have gotten if you read the link
CJuice Sandwich-lazy sage seer || Cmeat Sandwich- fat blind engi sniper
lil'cmeat Sandwich- it's a lil Cmeat! Gunslinger || Naked-snake- looks more like plissken, scoundrel
Laziness is a skill

Infalliable's Avatar


Infalliable
12.03.2012 , 01:47 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by CJNJ View Post
Yeah, the only sniper spec where you might take aim is if you go full MM, as all the damage in that spec comes from white damage, except for orbital strike.

To the other poster I like what you did with that "stacking aim" thing I said. The original poster was only referring between aim and cunning, so I only referred to those 2 stats. To be honest the whole cunning thing is ment for endgame pve, something that somebody with 1600 aim and 1.3k expertise wouldn't be doing. Another thing you would have gotten if you read the link
Exactly, it only makes some marginal sense for a single spec (and a specific build) of Marksman sniper b/c the entire spec is potentially ranged damage.

Since marksman has no (or few) normally used tech attacks, it's not horrendous to get aim instead. That said, the DR on critical rate from mainstat is pretty miniscule. You gain very little to ranged damage but loose a decent amount to your tech attacks. It's min-maxed to do one rotation very well but looses flexibility (e.g., you're weaker at taking out adds, orbital strike hits for less and it's the hardest hitting attack for snipers, some tech attacks are still useful for MM and are all weakened).

Sippix's Avatar


Sippix
12.03.2012 , 02:23 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by CJNJ View Post
... To be honest the whole cunning thing is ment for endgame pve, something that somebody with 1600 aim and 1.3k expertise wouldn't be doing. ...
PVP DPS shouldn't have 1.3k Expertise - They should try to stay as close to 1200 as possible without going under. I also only have 1540 Aim. The rest has been stacked into Power, which is what PT PVP DPS should be doing anyhow. In fact, almost all DPS classes should be stacking Power over main stat - especially after 1200 Expertise (which is where sharp DR's currently hit).

It's really silly that you advocate stacking a moderate amount of cunning on a PT, yet you constantly contradict your stance by saying, "That's not what I do, and not what you should do, either." So, are you for or against stacking (any amount) of Cunning beyond what Datacrons provide?
Malkiv Mayhem
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CJNJ's Avatar


CJNJ
12.03.2012 , 02:38 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Sippix View Post
PVP DPS shouldn't have 1.3k Expertise - They should try to stay as close to 1200 as possible without going under. I also only have 1540 Aim. The rest has been stacked into Power, which is what PT PVP DPS should be doing anyhow. In fact, almost all DPS classes should be stacking Power over main stat - especially after 1200 Expertise (which is where sharp DR's currently hit).

It's really silly that you advocate stacking a moderate amount of cunning on a PT, yet you constantly contradict your stance by saying, "That's not what I do, and not what you should do, either." So, are you for or against stacking (any amount) of Cunning beyond what Datacrons provide?
I misread what you posted before on expertise, thought it said you had 1.3k, not other people lol. All I was trying to say was that somebody can switch a mod or 2 if they wanted to try to increase their tech crit to maximize their yellow damage at the cost of hurting white damage slightly. If somebody wants to switch out some aim for some cunning then I feel that is perfectly reasonable. I do not do that because I do not play a spec that has the ability to do so, simple as that
CJuice Sandwich-lazy sage seer || Cmeat Sandwich- fat blind engi sniper
lil'cmeat Sandwich- it's a lil Cmeat! Gunslinger || Naked-snake- looks more like plissken, scoundrel
Laziness is a skill

SgtKlavier's Avatar


SgtKlavier
12.03.2012 , 03:21 PM | #28
On a point per point basis, aim has a better value than power for pt dps. Sure, for mods you want the high power high aim ones, but besides that stacking power is not as good mathematically speaking.

Evuo's Avatar


Evuo
12.03.2012 , 03:35 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Sippix View Post
PVP DPS shouldn't have 1.3k Expertise - They should try to stay as close to 1200 as possible without going under. I also only have 1540 Aim. The rest has been stacked into Power, which is what PT PVP DPS should be doing anyhow. In fact, almost all DPS classes should be stacking Power over main stat - especially after 1200 Expertise (which is where sharp DR's currently hit).
Let's be careful about generalizing here. An 8/31/2 AP is most definately not going to be stacking power over aim with the access to the 9% aim skill and lack of 6% tech crit a 4/6/31 Pyro has access to.

As far as the amount of expertise, take whatever you can get away with having for greater damage dealing potential. But this idea that there is a sharp DR at 1200 is bit overexaggerated in my opinion. I put the links below to some of the graphs that plot out expertise's bonus conversion for damage done, received, and healing boost respectively. Make of it what you will, but I wouldn't refer to it as "sharp."

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/...rtisegraph.jpg
http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-998.html

Evuo's Avatar


Evuo
12.03.2012 , 03:56 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by SgtKlavier View Post
On a point per point basis, aim has a better value than power for pt dps. Sure, for mods you want the high power high aim ones, but besides that stacking power is not as good mathematically speaking.
Slow down here, we cannot make this a blanket conclusion about all PT dps specs. Aim adds approximately 0.2 damage per point while power adds 0.23 damage per point. Aim additionally adds a small amount of +crit that is not on the crit rating DR curve.

Now the gentleman to whom you are addressing uses a 4/6/31 pyro build for PVP which does not have access to the 9% aim skill. With the large amount of +crit chance skills and the 4pc eliminator set bonus, it is reasonable to choose the power favoring option for more bonus damage. Additionally, there is no such mod that has both high aim and high power.