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Kaggath Series: Grievous vs Malgus

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Grievous vs Malgus

ReiKai's Avatar


ReiKai
11.19.2012 , 10:52 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by schwartzpedro View Post
Remember what Grievous did on the Tartakovsky's Clone War Series: he was a ****** , not a coward.He was fast,4 arms + using legs + spider-like abilites+ using walls and cellings. Tough fight,but he'd win a duel.

All out war?Tough call too.Maybe a ruined galaxy for an Android to rule?
And -that- series has been made non-canon. It also made the cast obscenely more powerful than they were ever depicted in the Movies, EU counterparts and later the newer TCW series. You watch EP3 and TCW, he's a pure-bred coward. Having four arms doesn't mean much. There've been Jedi and Sith like that before.
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schwartzpedro's Avatar


schwartzpedro
11.19.2012 , 12:10 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by ReiKai View Post
And -that- series has been made non-canon. It also made the cast obscenely more powerful than they were ever depicted in the Movies, EU counterparts and later the newer TCW series. You watch EP3 and TCW, he's a pure-bred coward. Having four arms doesn't mean much. There've been Jedi and Sith like that before.
Wait,since when it was made non canon?
It explains everything in the beginning of Ep 3!
Also,how can it become non canon if it brought us the Gen'dai,Durge,Asajj,Grievous...

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.19.2012 , 12:54 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by ReiKai View Post
Clearly you're misunderstanding. Plot Protection keeps a character from being killed until a certain point. And, btw, if Malgus died on Alderaan then he wouldn't have appeared on Coruscant during the Sacking. Things like this are used to maintain Continuity. However, such is Irrelevant here because this is not a story written within the confines of the SWU. It is a hypothetical scenario falling outside of the Story which prevents such characters from being offed.

For example, Obi-Wan was protected by Plot in Ep1 when fighting Maul. Maul had the upper hand and clearly would've (should've) won and killed Obi-Wan. However, since they needed to preserve continuity, PIS were induced to allow Maul's defeat. That would be Plot Induced Stupidity. Which generally involves making a character act out-of-character. It's what keeps villains from offing heroes and makes them give long-winded monologues instead of just getting the job done. PIS/CIS is a constant tool in fiction for the sake of story development and keeping certain characters around until they are no longer needed.

However, once more, such a thing does not apply here. And Grievous' cowardice is not a special power. Malgus surviving Satele's Force Blast is more evidence of how tough he is, and it was the reason for his respirator.
The key word here being, irrelevant. While I completely understand your point, not only is it completely hypothetical, its also an argument outside of the Star Wars Universe and therefore not valid. So for the purpose of debate, Grievous is a master escapist. And why can't he be? It has nothing to do with his powers, he just has to be smart enough to know the way to the escape pod, and we all know how quick he can move with those legs. What's more, you said so yourself, Grievous is a coward, well, tha's subject to debate but he certainly chooses flight over fight more often than not. So, say, if Malgus boarded his flagship, he would run for it. Malgus is highly unlikely to win the war purely by storming his way into whatever room Grievous is in, if you think about it, out of all other matchups, a 1v1 fight is least likely to happen.

But anyway, you make some good points. Malgus has a lot of spin balls while Grievous has few (may i also note that ground rules excludes Darth Serevin from this battle), but Grievous has a lot of droids. No, your right, he doesn't have 'trillions of battle droids'. He's got, and this is a direct quote from Wookiepedia backed up by a source:
Quote:
a colossal army numbering in the quintillions
!!!!!!!!!
So, while Malgus doesn't have to wade his way through every single battle droid. He does have to fight them. So Grievous has Malgus pinned down on the battlefield. But in my opinion, its in space that this battle will be one or lost. According to Mace Windu:
Quote:
the Separatist navy has four times the number of ships we do
Being the Republic, so Grievous has Malgus heavily outnumbered in terms of ships. But I think we can all agree that Sith battlecruisers are far superior to that of the CIS, so they probably count for 3 of Grievous' ships. Still though he is outnumbered. As JekRendar said, Grievous would win the war of attrition. Malgus' only hope of victory is to destroy Grievous' production facilities, or strike at Grievous himself - but Grievous is incredibly evasive.

It all comes down to how skilled a tactician Malgus is, and whether he can end the war as quickly as possible by cornering the General. Personally I don't think it can be done.

ReiKai's Avatar


ReiKai
11.19.2012 , 04:05 PM | #24
I guess what I was trying to say was that Grievous escaping has less to do with any kind of skill he has at it and more to do with the Plot enabling him to do so for the sake of Story Canon. But anyway, the likelihood of him actually escaping from a space battle with Malgus is virtually nil because of the cloaked fleet. Grievous has no way of fending off attacks from invisible persuers, or even knowing if one is sitting right outside his docking bay, ready to blow him to cosmic dust.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling
No, your right, he doesn't have 'trillions of battle droids'. He's got, and this is a direct quote from Wookiepedia backed up by a source:
I honestly wouldn't take anything from a Wiki related site to heart. It says one thing, but we don't see anywhere near that number in any of the media; Movies, Books, TV and games. Not even if you combined all the droids you say in all those formats together, you still wouldn't see anything close to the number that Wookiee states. Especially when, as I said before, that the Republic senate is worried about a few million more being made as opposed to the supposed quintillions that're on the field. It doesn't make any sense.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling
Being the Republic, so Grievous has Malgus heavily outnumbered in terms of ships. But I think we can all agree that Sith battlecruisers are far superior to that of the CIS, so they probably count for 3 of Grievous' ships. Still though he is outnumbered. As JekRendar said, Grievous would win the war of attrition. Malgus' only hope of victory is to destroy Grievous' production facilities, or strike at Grievous himself - but Grievous is incredibly evasive.
That I can agree on. In terms of numbers, Grievous does have the advantage. He probably has 6-1 odds on Malgus. Yet as we know, for all the Numbers that Grievous had, Jedi and the Clones have been more than matching them to the point of a near stalemate. The difference here, I'd say, is that Malgus' forces are more varied, with different species and ways of fighting, along with Sith War Droids. Plus Malgus has the Schism Collective, a group of alien scientists dedicated to advancing the weapons and technology under Malgus' command. One such being the Flux Cannon on Malgus' space station, which can completely destroy a Capital Ship in one shot.
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Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
11.19.2012 , 05:09 PM | #25
Quote:
That I can agree on. In terms of numbers, Grievous does have the advantage. He probably has 6-1 odds on Malgus. Yet as we know, for all the Numbers that Grievous had, Jedi and the Clones have been more than matching them to the point of a near stalemate. The difference here, I'd say, is that Malgus' forces are more varied, with different species and ways of fighting, along with Sith War Droids. Plus Malgus has the Schism Collective, a group of alien scientists dedicated to advancing the weapons and technology under Malgus' command. One such being the Flux Cannon on Malgus' space station, which can completely destroy a Capital Ship in one shot.
I thought the rule was that all tech was the same in this debate because:

Any tech made by Malgus and his scientists would alreay have been invented by Grievous's era. If you want to argue that Malgus has better tech you will lose, because anything he creates the CIS will have / know about.

The "more ways of fighting" argument is completely not true. The types of droids used by the CIS were numberous, and let's not forget that there was more to the Confederacy than droids.

Click this link and scroll down the page to "Members" for a full list. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Separatist_Droid_Army

The innovation and unorthodox tactics used by this large number of different droid types and organic soldiers puts Grievous at an advantage for the "more ways of fighting" arguement.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
11.21.2012 , 11:47 AM | #26
Dueling Wise: Grevious.


Anybody from the Prequel Era, Jedi or Sith would dominate pretty much 90% before them. Especially Grevious considering he went against the likes of Obi-wan Kenobi, Kit Fisto, Ki-Adi-Mundi, and survived.


Space Battle Wise: Malgus. Because Grevious kind of runs on superweapons and special weapons that his ships have.
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.21.2012 , 12:03 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by BrandonSM View Post
Dueling Wise: Grevious.


Anybody from the Prequel Era, Jedi or Sith would dominate pretty much 90% before them. Especially Grevious considering he went against the likes of Obi-wan Kenobi, Kit Fisto, Ki-Adi-Mundi, and survived.
While you make a good point, I would disagree. Grievous would definitely be able to hold his own against Malgus (i fear Malgus is becoming the next Revan...), as you said. But ulimately the likes of Obi-Wan and Kit Fisto were stronger than him, and Malgus was extremely powerful himself. So I'd give this to Malgus. Grievous has however, more than enough ability to hold his own in time for an escape, or for his droids to intervene.

Oh and Malgus is a Sith while those Grievous have fought were Jedi, Grievous would be unprepared for the vicious battle style a powerful sith brings to bear. (Also cyborg + force lightning probably don't mix well.)
Quote:
Space Battle Wise: Malgus. Because Grevious kind of runs on superweapons and special weapons that his ships have.
I would partially agree with you here, Malgus' ships are far more superior. But the difference is that Grievous has far more at his disposal, so while there would a lot of defeats on Grievous' part, he has enough ships to wear Malgus down over time.

This is what the fight comes down to, I believe Malgus trumps Grievous in terms of ability i.e. lightsaber combat, navy ability, army ability. But Grievous has the advantage of numbers, and therefore can afford multiple defeats. Its whether Malgus can take out Grievous before Grievous wears him down, and as Grievous is a master escapist and skilled in combat, i don't think he would.

IMO: Grievous wins (i don't know what your stance is)

ToEasy's Avatar


ToEasy
11.21.2012 , 12:13 PM | #28
I think Grievous wins this. His forces are much larger than Malgus' and I just don't think that he can take out Grievous fast enough.
"Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. We fight for justice because justice is the fundamental bedrock of civilization: an unjust civilization is built upon sand. It does not long survive a storm." - Mace Windu

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
11.21.2012 , 07:38 PM | #29
Grievous has the numerical advantage and he's a competitent commander, but I say Malgus is probably the victor.

While they are both competitent commanders, the Battle Droids have often been fairly stupid, and I think Malgus will field troops that have enough wit to pull off unorthodox tactics which could tip things in Malgus's favor.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
11.21.2012 , 08:19 PM | #30
General Grievous wins because:

1.) Numbers advantage
2.) Support of hundreds of worlds (Bigger power-base/ biological troops)
3.) Adaptable troops*
4.) General, not Emporer*
5.) Lack of 1v1 fight

* (3) = New arguement: The droid army had droids for every type of terrain. Underwater, space, ice and snow, swamp, you name it. If the battleground is the entire galaxy, this adaptability would prove an advantage over the more standard army soldiers of Malgus.

*(4) = New arguement: General Grievous knows how to comand an army. We see this in the Clones Wars, seeing as the CIS actually win many battles. But is Malgus a general? Well, at his height, he is an Emporer, which does not mean he directly tells his troops what to do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Grievous's expirience as a General, not a ruler, would give his forces a tacticle edge in any battle.

Winner = Grievous