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Ideas To Fix Vengeance


PowerReaper's Avatar


PowerReaper
11.12.2012 , 10:17 PM | #1
Butchering
- Increases the critical strike damage of the Force Scream by 15%/30% and all your internal damage abilities and damage over time effects by 7.5%/15%.

Invulnerable
- Increases your movement speed by 7.5%/15% and reduces area of effect damage by 15%/30%.

Sharpened Saber
- Increases the critical strike damage and damage of Impale and Vicious Slash by 15%.
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LilTsar's Avatar


LilTsar
11.12.2012 , 11:45 PM | #2
all solid ideas, though id rather see critical bonus applied to vicious throw than anything, or perhaps a bonus to periodic damage boost on targets under 30%.

i think the movement speed could easily be tacked onto the shien aspect of single saber master and the area damage reduction could either go onto deadly reprisal or just replace 'unyielding', and the effect of that could be made part of pooled hatred. i prefer that, since it would give the other specs the option to grab it. as for the crit bonus talent, id certainly give up sundering throw for it.
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UncleOst's Avatar


UncleOst
11.13.2012 , 11:28 AM | #3
... give vig/veng 30percent armor penetration and an additional 30percent damage boost on all attacks. Enable force crush to automatically proc with each shatter strike(same dot as rage spec's force crush, but susceptible to all damage bonuses). Make sundering assault a stackable buff(5 ranks), that enables with each use, an increase to crit/critical strike damage(10,20,30,40,50 percent values).
Also make sure to increase the damage mitigation that unstoppable yields...increase from 20 percent up to 80 percent.




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Skullbash's Avatar


Skullbash
11.13.2012 , 11:48 AM | #4
15%/30% Crit bonus to Impale and Vicious Throw (force scream might make it too similar to carnage)

And maybe a buff to all the dots once a target is past 30% health, like the pyro talent, which together with the vicious throw crits would give vengeance a definitive role in combat as a finisher.

Elyxin's Avatar


Elyxin
11.14.2012 , 03:27 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Skullbash View Post
15%/30% Crit bonus to Impale and Vicious Throw (force scream might make it too similar to carnage)

And maybe a buff to all the dots once a target is past 30% health, like the pyro talent, which together with the vicious throw crits would give vengeance a definitive role in combat as a finisher.
I can see the logic, but not sure I'm comfortable with back loading so much of our damage. I've seen that before in many other MMO's and it could end up making us much more single sided. I prefer the approach to increased DoT's and bonus damage as it ups our damage across the entire range of the fight, instead of making us a one-trick pony. I don't want my DPS across the board to suffer just so i can get some Huge burst right at the end. this is strictly from PvE perspective btw, don't to PvP.

EnalisNailo's Avatar


EnalisNailo
11.14.2012 , 07:51 PM | #6
The two things I'd like to see most for Juggs-

We get the root on Ravage that Carnage rauders get, I mean we're the class that does all the reprocs on it, would make us like a control class. Able to lockdown players with it, etc.

Make Shatter's dot stack up to three times. Would give reason to the 12second dot on a 9second CD move.
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Pyrinoos's Avatar


Pyrinoos
11.14.2012 , 08:52 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by EnalisNailo View Post
The two things I'd like to see most for Juggs-

We get the root on Ravage that Carnage rauders get, I mean we're the class that does all the reprocs on it, would make us like a control class. Able to lockdown players with it, etc.

Make Shatter's dot stack up to three times. Would give reason to the 12second dot on a 9second CD move.
I approve of both of these changes as they would make a big difference in pvp.
If veg dps still was a little behind in pve, I would also suggest changing draining scream. No more bleed, but instead allow it to lower the rage cost of force scream by 1/2 and increase the critical damage bonus of force scream by 20/40 %. This opens rage generation/rotation up a little and increases dps since force scream will crit 100% of the time.
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Emperor-Norton's Avatar


Emperor-Norton
11.14.2012 , 09:21 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by EnalisNailo View Post
The two things I'd like to see most for Juggs-

We get the root on Ravage that Carnage rauders get, I mean we're the class that does all the reprocs on it, would make us like a control class. Able to lockdown players with it, etc.

Make Shatter's dot stack up to three times. Would give reason to the 12second dot on a 9second CD move.
I am imagining how people will react in PvP when we can't be CC'd during Ravage, nor can anyone get away because of the root. Needless to say, more QQ threads than all the Marauder ones to the fifth power.

EnalisNailo's Avatar


EnalisNailo
11.18.2012 , 09:14 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Emperor-Norton View Post
I am imagining how people will react in PvP when we can't be CC'd during Ravage, nor can anyone get away because of the root. Needless to say, more QQ threads than all the Marauder ones to the fifth power.
True but we also don't have the insane defensives that Marauders have. We are a lot squisher than rauders despite our heavy armor. In a pvp enraged defense is arugably our best defensive and that is but a shadow of what undying rage can do.

The root on Ravage would make it quite decent for pvp. Remember it is all weapon damage and we have no form of armor penetration as Vengeance so every ounce of mitigation someone has would kick in. In a pve evniornment it adds a bit more control to the Juggernaut as well.

@Pyrinoos- 20/40 seems a bit excessive I would say 7.5/15, remember Vengeance isn't all about that upfront damage but the sustained burn from decent damageing attacks that lay dots on the targets. My suggestion would either be extend the durration of the dot to above that of the move's cd itself (same with Impale) increase the dot's damage and make it stackable like my shatter change.

The other option I would suggest is have draining scream offer a form of armor penetration 15/30 or even 20/40. Vengeance has no form of armor penetration but the highest damageing skills within vengeance are kinetic damage.

Vengeance dosn't need Buffs per say, it need's adjustments. Impale and screams bleeds are just way too weak.
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-55 Roster-
Enalis, the Vengance Juggernaut - Sčrina, the Darkness Assassin - Morrigon, the Carnage Marauder
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Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
11.18.2012 , 09:42 AM | #10
Woah, if ALL ideas in the OP would be implemented, Vigilance/Vengeance would become the most overpowered DPS spec in the game. By some distance. I don't think we really want that.