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P2W is bad?


DaedalusV's Avatar


DaedalusV
11.13.2012 , 05:27 AM | #21
Here's my argument against P2W, please rebuke it...

Two wrongs does not make a right.

Gear based progression sucks, it is there to keep people paying the sub, artificially prolonging the content of the game.

P2W is equally bad for the game.

Yes we have gear progression, I don't support it and I don't like it.

P2W would be implementing ANOTHER bad solution.

Two wrongs does not make a right.
"you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
Arwyn Sage Blitzkrieger Sentinel Sk'ye Guardian

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
11.13.2012 , 05:28 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
Player A has a full time job, family, and responsibilities, that puts him on disadvantage if he want's to compete with player B.
So, he's a casual player with not much play time on his hand but wants to go against the best without going through the stages said people have to actually become the best?

Sorry, I just don't see the logic behind it. Would the Olympic swimming team let a millionare join them who doesn't even know how to swim and hasn't had the time and effort to learn the tricks of the trade? Could a millionaire nominate himself for the Academy Award if he hasn't invested time and effort into becoming a renowned actor? Could you demand the Noble Prize, just because you have money but your life was unfortunately so busy that you didn't have time and energy to invent something famous? Absurd, right? Well, you can't demand the best gear wihout putting any effort into obtaining them, either.

There are things in real life that you can only gain through effort, not money, because it would cheapen their value. There similare things in a virtual game.

Having said that, I have always been pushing for proper match making and a casual PvP bracket at Recruit level.
If we had one, your middle-aged, dedicated, bank clerk father of 2 children could compete against similar players while not feeling hindered by his gear. Another bracket at 50 and proper matchmaking are the reasonable solutions, not going P2W,
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

falcon_Xtreme's Avatar


falcon_Xtreme
11.13.2012 , 05:29 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Real simple, it's a matter of integrity.

If the company begins it's P2W route, first it will be even terms. Money or Time for gear. Sound nice right?

Then it get's to be Money or More Time.

Pretty soon the only way to get gear is Money, or spending an outrageous amount of time. (You think this gear grind bad, go play Perfect World).

Now what the company is suppose to be providing is a game to waste time in, but instead they are gobbling up your money and whoring themselves out to the highest bidder. Trust me, as someone who spent over 2,000 in two years on one game... you -do not- want pay to win.

More importantly, if you think paying for your gear vs. putting time in playing the game for it is some how an equal term... <.< well you probably don't love games.
Ive played since day one. i have several 50s ive done the valor 70+ grind and the valor +60 several times also... im going to pay to win on re-rolled characters. working longer hours playing less. so paying to "win" will be an option for me. if you have the time invest the time. if you have the money invest the money.
REDZONE & PROUD!

Eggsalicious's Avatar


Eggsalicious
11.13.2012 , 05:32 AM | #24
P2W is wonderful. It warmeth my cockles.

I think it's insane to pay rent to live in a virtual world and neglect reality, but it's even more insane to pay for cosmetic goods that are only of questionable use in that world. I have a hard enough time rationalizing the former; there's no way I would do the latter.

However, since I've already done the former, I like the idea of people dumber than me spending real money on useless virtual things so I don't lose my investment in my pastime. Good PvP teams will always smear bad P2W teams, and no-one cares what bad players do as long as they keep injecting money into SWTOR.

If you P2W in PvE, then LOL@U--you probably had a Tamogotchi as a kid and your loserdom is almost complete (but please keep paying, thx).

~Sig

DaedalusV's Avatar


DaedalusV
11.13.2012 , 05:34 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by falcon_Xtreme View Post
Ive played since day one. i have several 50s ive done the valor 70+ grind and the valor +60 several times also... im going to pay to win on re-rolled characters. working longer hours playing less. so paying to "win" will be an option for me. if you have the time invest the time. if you have the money invest the money.
So by the merits of your arguments..

If I have the knowhow to cheat I should be allowed to.

(BTW if you have money to spare, I'm sure you could hire someone to do the grinding for you, right?)
"you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
Arwyn Sage Blitzkrieger Sentinel Sk'ye Guardian

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
11.13.2012 , 05:36 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Wainamoinen View Post
The essence of any competitive game is you pit yourself against the opponent on equal terms, within the game, to see who is better.

If you play someone at chess, do you regard the fact that they have practiced and played more as unfair? Perhaps you demand that you should be able to buy six more queens if you want, as your time is too valuable to waste learning how to play.

For a game to be a clean contest and have the integrity to keep people engaged, it must not be possible to simply buy your way to victory, because then it's just a contest to see who can spend the most rather than who's best at the game.

For the record, I'm married and have a full-time job; and also two toons in full aug-WH. It's not that hard to gear up. I'll pay to play (I subscribe after all), but I would quit the moment a game went pay to win; because I want to play a game, not get into a wallet-waving contest.
6 queens is a bad example.
if 6 queens can be obtained by gridning , game wouldn't be chess any more. and you can't buy skill.
I agre it's not hard to gear up, and I won't pay for gear either, but if some one want's to pay or $ or for augumented WH, let them. if they suck, they wil still suck, diff between BM and WH is not so big any way. bah, if a guy can't play, recruit player will smash them.
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

falcon_Xtreme's Avatar


falcon_Xtreme
11.13.2012 , 05:37 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
So, he's a casual player with not much play time on his hand but wants to go against the best without going through the stages said people have to actually become the best?

Sorry, I just don't see the logic behind it. Would the Olympic swimming team let a millionare join them who doesn't even know how to swim and hasn't had the time and effort to learn the tricks of the trade? Could a millionaire nominate himself for the Academy award if he hasn't invested time and effort to become a renowned actor?

There are things in real life that you can only gain through effort, not money, because it would cheapen their value. There similare things in a virtual game.

Having said that, I have always been pushing for proper match making and a casual PvP bracket at Recruit level.
If we had one, your middle-aged, dedicated, bank clerk father of 2 children could compete against similar players while not feeling hindered by his gear. Another bracket at 50 and proper matchmaking are the reasonable solutions, not going P2W,
its a game. if I work 40-50 hours a week and cannot invest as much time as someone with no job who plays 24/7. does that mean I have to still invest a certain amount of time to aquire the gear (through a gear grind) just to make it somehow fair for the person who aquired it that way? ... no if theres an option thats suitable for me (and others ) then we will take it. my game experience is my game experience.
REDZONE & PROUD!

falcon_Xtreme's Avatar


falcon_Xtreme
11.13.2012 , 05:39 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by DaedalusV View Post
So by the merits of your arguments..
If I have the knowhow to cheat I should be allowed to.(BTW if you have money to spare, I'm sure you could hire someone to do the grinding for you, right?)
strawman. i said nothing of the sort.
REDZONE & PROUD!

falcon_Xtreme's Avatar


falcon_Xtreme
11.13.2012 , 05:41 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
<SNIP> but if some one want's to pay or $ or for augumented WH, let them. if they suck, they wil still suck, diff between BM and WH is not so big any way. bah, if a guy can't play, recruit player will smash them.
agree with this ^
REDZONE & PROUD!

DaedalusV's Avatar


DaedalusV
11.13.2012 , 05:42 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by falcon_Xtreme View Post
its a game. if I work 40-50 hours a week and cannot invest as much time as someone with no job who plays 24/7. does that mean I have to still invest a certain amount of time to aquire the gear (through a gear grind) just to make it somehow fair for the person who aquired it that way? ... no if theres an option thats suitable for me (and others ) then we will take it. my game experience is my game experience.
So if I have an option to crack/hack/exploit because I have the IT knowhow, I should be allowed? My game experience is my game experience... If I wan't to level the playing field/get an edge over others ingame because I am in a position to do that through means NOT ingame, I should be allowed??
"you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
Arwyn Sage Blitzkrieger Sentinel Sk'ye Guardian