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Debunking false ideas about Mara/Sents in PVP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Debunking false ideas about Mara/Sents in PVP

AsiriusNazriel's Avatar


AsiriusNazriel
11.13.2012 , 08:09 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by DariusCalera View Post
I've yet to see a trooper ability that allows you to autocrit for 5K damage on 5 enemies.

Their hard hitting abilities also have a relatively long ramp up time, are channeled,or, in the case of their AOE abilities, someone can just run out of the AOE.
How many 5 people AOEs do you know of that happen per WZ? Do you play a Rage/Focus spec? I do and I can call BS on seeing a 5-person hit in every WZ. The most you generally get is a 3 person hit, and that requires the correct circumstances.

Trooper hard hitting abilities are also guaranteed 2.5k hits EVERY TIME, without a crit. When they do crit, they hit for 3.5-4k. That's basically a filler ability that hits for 2.5k when not criting, whereas my VS hits for 2.5-2.7k on a crit, so yeah the damage potential is absolutely there. You let a guy spam Grav round and he will be top DPS, you get 3 Arsenal spec players and they will cause atrocious damage because you can't lock down all 3 Mercs at once.

Quote: Originally Posted by GrandMike View Post
No, in our world system he wants is called BALANCE and what BW does is called CATERING to BADS.

Thats why PvP in SWTOR will always suck.

Game was more balanced at launch and their "balancing" was laughed at (operatives rofl marauders rofl).

Anyway, they treat PvP as they do their "space game", they dont give a damn about it, they dont have enough people any more to care about it (they are now understaffed anyway) and if you want good PvP game you certanly WONT play SWTOR (or any gear based "we cater to bads" game, though its more obvious in SWTOR because they admitted it publicly)
More balanced at launch. You mean with 4-man teams of healers who were unbeatable, 3-shotting Operatives and Smugglers, Hybrid Sorcs/Sages of epic proc'ing, 10k Rage spec Juggernaut smashes... TM TM TM TM TM TM TM

Yeah, it was very balanced.

PVP is awesome, plenty of people enjoy it, but doesn't sound like you're one of them.
Pax Imperius & Pax Dominus
Arash a.k.a. "Chuck Norris of PVP"

AsiriusNazriel's Avatar


AsiriusNazriel
11.13.2012 , 08:13 AM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
Marauders got the best defensive CD's in the game, plus stealth, plus healing, plus highest damage output in the game.
Marauders don't have the best defensive CDs in the game, they don't have a stealth mode only a 4 second evasive CD, Marauders don't have healing... they aren't healers and they don't stand back and heal but they do have a spec that can raise survivability due to self-healing, and they are not the highest damage output in the game because that honor goes to Mercs who can spam TM on a Operation boss, Snipers, Madness Assassins, and Rage specs of the SW class... but Marauders are part of the highest damage ACs of the game.
Pax Imperius & Pax Dominus
Arash a.k.a. "Chuck Norris of PVP"

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
11.13.2012 , 08:26 AM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by AsiriusNazriel View Post
Marauders don't have the best defensive CDs in the game, they don't have a stealth mode only a 4 second evasive CD, Marauders don't have healing... they aren't healers and they don't stand back and heal but they do have a spec that can raise survivability due to self-healing, and they are not the highest damage output in the game because that honor goes to Mercs who can spam TM on a Operation boss, Snipers, Madness Assassins, and Rage specs of the SW class... but Marauders are part of the highest damage ACs of the game.
Did you really say mercs are on par with marauder damage output? Oh good lord.

What other class has god mode? I also believe their force camo is on a lower CD than the op/scoundrel vanish? If I'm right on that, then yea they are OP.

Why are we talking about PVE in the PVP section? Nothing holds a candle compared to a marauders damage output.

AsiriusNazriel's Avatar


AsiriusNazriel
11.13.2012 , 08:37 AM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
Did you really say mercs are on par with marauder damage output? Oh good lord.

What other class has god mode? I also believe their force camo is on a lower CD than the op/scoundrel vanish? If I'm right on that, then yea they are OP.

Why are we talking about PVE in the PVP section? Nothing holds a candle compared to a marauders damage output.
Go parse on a WZ dummy and see how the damage stacks up.

It's not a godmode, but if you want to talk about godmode... Juggernauts have a 2sec godmode on saberward and op/scoundrel has a 3 second godmode. Oh and other classes have 4 second hard stun and some even have an second 8-second mez. Other classes also have knockbacks and force pulls. What else? Oh perma stealth.

You're knitpicking apples and oranges.
Pax Imperius & Pax Dominus
Arash a.k.a. "Chuck Norris of PVP"

AsiriusNazriel's Avatar


AsiriusNazriel
11.13.2012 , 09:00 AM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Problem is - in the majority of cases this sort of people can't really enjoy anything, unless they have every possible advantage, or have such advantages stripped from those they cannot beat.
And not just that. There are concrete differentiating factors between the classes. People QQ about defensive CDs, but if we get those taken away and get a 4sec hard stun then it'll be people eating Ravage all day every day. Then we'll hear QQ about stuns and Ravage. Can't please everyone, especially people who refuse to enjoy the game, roll many classes, and play the story.

There are reasons why force choke is channeled, during early testing it was a non-channeled hard stun and people got wrecked uber hard. Plenty of things got changed.

I have faith that SWTOR devs will make improvements and adjustments over the long haul. Rome wasn't built overnight.
Pax Imperius & Pax Dominus
Arash a.k.a. "Chuck Norris of PVP"

SajPl's Avatar


SajPl
11.13.2012 , 09:06 AM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by AsiriusNazriel View Post
Marauders don't have the best defensive CDs in the game,
Mercenary 12 second 25% damage reduction 2 minute cooldown, while you have 5 defensive cooldowns one of which (cloak of pain) is on half the cooldown time and lasts over twice as long, Same for a powertech TANK. So yes you have better defensive cooldowns than powertech tanks.



Quote: Originally Posted by AsiriusNazriel View Post
Marauders don't have healing... they aren't healers and they don't stand back and heal but they do have a spec that can raise survivability due to self-healing, and they are not the highest damage output in the game because that honor goes to Mercs who can spam TM on a Operation boss, Snipers, Madness Assassins, and Rage specs of the SW class... but Marauders are part of the highest damage ACs of the game.
My friend can do 1k DPS as an annihilation marauder which of course is lower than lolsmashspec but still makes him pretty much top of the food chain and guess what on top of that he does 150k healing. Tanksins self healing was nerfed because marauders were whining that there is a class that can fight them on equal terms, so tanksin healing got nerfed ... but dont worry, tracer missile got nerfed, tanksin got nerfed, operatives got nerfed, powertechs (even tanks) got nerfed so dont worry all you lolrauders will get brought in line with the other classes.

SpaniardInfinity's Avatar


SpaniardInfinity
11.13.2012 , 09:41 AM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by AsiriusNazriel View Post
And not just that. There are concrete differentiating factors between the classes. People QQ about defensive CDs, but if we get those taken away and get a 4sec hard stun then it'll be people eating Ravage all day every day. Then we'll hear QQ about stuns and Ravage. Can't please everyone, especially people who refuse to enjoy the game, roll many classes, and play the story.

There are reasons why force choke is channeled, during early testing it was a non-channeled hard stun and people got wrecked uber hard. Plenty of things got changed.

I have faith that SWTOR devs will make improvements and adjustments over the long haul. Rome wasn't built overnight.
I agree. Sent/Mara is actually, with the sole exception of Smash/Sweep spec, is in line. There is nothing wrong with their damage numbers, they are flat out damage beasts and its to be expected of a class with only DPS specs. I play a healer primarily and while I'd absolutely love it if they just nerfed DPS into the ground, I'm also aware that there is this concept called balance and that there are going to be classes which dominate at killing players. Sent/Mara is one of them and changing that will frankly be a shame.

The only thing which may be slightly imbalancing in my opinion is Guarded by the Force/Cloak of Pain, and I think what's a little overpowering about it is the fact that you deal full damage while basically being immortal (and if you have a healer nearby, you just earned yourself a free second life). But even with that said, if the class is imbalanced, its only marginally and I don't think it should be a priority.
Aux "Spaniard" Wargarde (Rank 2400+ Combat Medic) | Reighner the Relentless (Conqueror Bodyguard)
The Generalissimo Legacy
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WaywardOne's Avatar


WaywardOne
11.13.2012 , 10:01 AM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by DariusCalera View Post
I've yet to see a trooper ability that allows you to autocrit for 5K damage on 5 enemies.

Their hard hitting abilities also have a relatively long ramp up time, are channeled,or, in the case of their AOE abilities, someone can just run out of the AOE.
I've seen maybe 1 vid where that happened - never seen it in game.

Ignoring that, your argument is that: The class that can do the most aoe is op'd because they can do the most aoe? Note that all of those maras have to get right next to you to do their burst (not so with most of the other dmg aoes).

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
11.13.2012 , 10:15 AM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by AsiriusNazriel View Post
Go parse on a WZ dummy and see how the damage stacks up.

You're knitpicking apples and oranges.
This makes me seriously wonder if you even play PVP if you think dummy parses have anything to do with what happens inside a WZ.

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
11.13.2012 , 10:19 AM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by aeterno View Post
Not the worst player but the average. That's how it's always been done and will continue to be done.
I don't know where you are getting your wild ideas, but what you are describing is impossible. There is no way to determine the "average" as you say. How do you know if the player isn't just a little bit better or a little bit worse then average? You don't. Key word: SUBJECTIVE.

There is only one standard of balance that is not subjective. That's a class' max potential. That is the only way any class can be balanced because everything else is just speculation. I don't know where you get your hair-brained ideas or why you think bioware already holds to them.