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Debunking false ideas about Mara/Sents in PVP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Debunking false ideas about Mara/Sents in PVP

Dacer's Avatar


Dacer
11.12.2012 , 08:55 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Who is complaining that guardians and GS are OP? Also, while a healing scoundrel might be considered OP, nobody considers dps scoundrels OP. Nobody is claiming sages are OP either. Bubble stun is what's OP, and that is only because it's bugged and not working properly.
YOu are all complaining about Smash marauders - but a Smash Jugg is actually better at it. And if they aren't tanking they are smashing. A lot of ppl are just assuming everything time they get hit for 6.5k its from a marauder - its not.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
11.12.2012 , 09:09 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Dacer View Post
YOu are all complaining about Smash marauders - but a Smash Jugg is actually better at it. And if they aren't tanking they are smashing. A lot of ppl are just assuming everything time they get hit for 6.5k its from a marauder - its not.
Except that a focus guardian doesn't have the bazillion def cds that a focus sent does. Yes a focus guardian hits hard, but they also die horribly easy, and that's why they're not OP. Unlike sents who get a 30s cd reduction to GBTF, us guardians get derp derp less cost on focused defense, a pretty terrible skill.

gofortheko's Avatar


gofortheko
11.12.2012 , 09:51 PM | #53
People also forget the 100% accuracy debuff sents/maras have that help them significantly against PTs/VGs and middle tree guards/juggs
Weapon-of War
Powertech - Vanguard - Sorcerer - Sage - Mercenary - Commando - Marauder - Sentinel - Juggernaut - Guardian - Assassin - Shadow - Operative -Scoundrel - Sniper - Gunslinger
Guild: Ghost Infantry Server: The Harbinger

Dacer's Avatar


Dacer
11.12.2012 , 09:58 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by gofortheko View Post
People also forget the 100% accuracy debuff sents/maras have that help them significantly against PTs/VGs and middle tree guards/juggs

mara/sents don't even use it.

its a terrible terrible ability.

AsiriusNazriel's Avatar


AsiriusNazriel
11.12.2012 , 10:38 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Dacer View Post
mara/sents don't even use it.

its a terrible terrible ability.
It's an amazing ability for 1on1s.

Everything else that the OP posted is BS, he's a known biased guy.

Yes OP, this is a QQ thread. Even if you put lipstick on it, it's all about YOU and QQ.
Pax Imperius & Pax Dominus
Arash a.k.a. "Chuck Norris of PVP"

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
11.12.2012 , 10:55 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Dacer View Post
mara/sents don't even use it.

its a terrible terrible ability.
What? It's a great ability to use against other knights, snipers, and troopers. It basically negates those classes hardest hitting attacks master strike, ambush/series of shots, full auto, high impact bolt.

Vacarius's Avatar


Vacarius
11.12.2012 , 11:04 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
Here is a prime example of exactly what I am talking about. A marauder trying to downplay his abilities. No knockback he says and yet I get force pushed twice within 5 seconds. One stun he says and yet he admits to an AOE mez...just lol.
You do realise this thread will just get deleted again right?

Regardless, a basic knowledge of the class probably helps before you start a 'debunking false ideas thread'. While you have a point, using blatantly wrong information as part of your arugment shows either ignorance or deception. For those of you who didn't read the last thread, he claimed marauders had a 75% self heal...

While you will ignore the points that hurt your argument and attack those that suit it, I will respond anyway (bored )

Point 1: Marauder Cooldowns

Yes marauders have a lot of cooldowns, some of which are very powerful. However, if cooldowns were the sole determinant of a class' worth, operatives would be the worst pvp healers when they're actually the best (ignoring the broken bubble sorc). Other classes make up for a lack of cooldowns with other traits, for instance a pyrotech can do the most burst damage in the game and more cooldowns would make it ridiculously op. I personally believe other classes should get more cooldowns (and get rebalanced to take account of this) as more useful abilities can only make classes more fun, while raising the skill cap.

Point 2: Undying Rage

UD is obviously powerful, there's no point in having a cooldown that does nothing. As stated earlier, UD should be used just before death (with exceptions) to give time for healers to get you back up. In a 1v1 situation, this will often win the marauder the battle. This however is irrelevant, 1v1s do not decide class balance, UD should only be considered in a group situation. In a group, you generally swap targets when your original victim pops a cooldown (unless you can burn him down) and swap back when it's over, so UD is no different to any other decent defensive in this regard. It is admittedly strong for soloing nodes, which is why attackers/defenders must take account of it.

Force shroud's longer duration combined with not using 50% hp make it a very strong cooldown. You seem to be obssessed with using FS just before death, which is the absolute wrong time to use it. Unlike UD, FS should be used so you don't take damage, rather than just before death. A 40% defense cooldown gives you a 60% chance of death at 1 hp, but extends the fight far longer is used when you're near full. I don't rank these two as they're for entirely different situations.

Point 3: Disadvantaged melee
This was a major concern before 1.4, LI, EC, KP etc, all favoured ranged dps. To counter this, melee classes got more cooldowns (dps jug, mara, sin). Powertechs didn't as they weren't considered melee dps by bioware at the time. PvP however, is certainly easier on melee due to LoS, ccs, and class balance. The main concern for pvp isn't that marauders are op, but that ranged are so easy to shut down with interupts. I would argue sorcs and mercs need to be rebalanced for pvp with the addition of something that protects against interupts.

Point 4: DPS
I'm going to assume this is a pve point. Powertechs are actually the top damage potential class in the game at the moment, although marauders are close behind. Maras, pts, mercs and snipers are generally pretty close and others can do very well, though less common. Melee should always have slightly higher
dps on dummies to account for movement in the fight, although a marauder's leap reduces this need somewhat.
Seikier - Operative Healer
Officer of Nightmare Council

aeterno's Avatar


aeterno
11.13.2012 , 12:57 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
*snip* I realize that most people who PVP are terrible at playing their character, but I think the standard for balance should be based upon the potential of the class when played optimally, not the average faceroller.
And that's your mistake right there.

Lowest common denominator is mmo king.

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
11.13.2012 , 01:36 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by aeterno View Post
And that's your mistake right there.

Lowest common denominator is mmo king.
That doesn't make sense at all. You think things should be balanced by the worst player of the class? How do you decide how bad someone is? There is absolutely no way to balance anything if you go off some subjective idea.

No. What you are suggesting is absolutely preposterous. The only way to balance classes is off their maximum potential. That's the only way judge how powerful each ability is. Since you can't get any better than maximum potential, you can use each classes maximum potential to judge how each one is in relation to eachother.

Do you really not understand this simple concept? This is like MMOs 101 day one class one stuff. You know like Basic MMO knowledge for 100 Alex. I know SWTOR is incredibly simple and easy to play, but I expect a little more from people as far as general knowledge of mechanics and balancing. So were you one of those people that made it all the way to 50 before figuring out what an advanced class is???

AsiriusNazriel's Avatar


AsiriusNazriel
11.13.2012 , 01:47 AM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
That doesn't make sense at all. You think things should be balanced by the worst player of the class? How do you decide how bad someone is? There is absolutely no way to balance anything if you go off some subjective idea.

No. What you are suggesting is absolutely preposterous. The only way to balance classes is off their maximum potential. That's the only way judge how powerful each ability is. Since you can't get any better than maximum potential, you can use each classes maximum potential to judge how each one is in relation to eachother.

Do you really not understand this simple concept? This is like MMOs 101 day one class one stuff. You know like Basic MMO knowledge for 100 Alex. I know SWTOR is incredibly simple and easy to play, but I expect a little more from people as far as general knowledge of mechanics and balancing. So were you one of those people that made it all the way to 50 before figuring out what an advanced class is???
The way you balance is by taking the average i.e. metrics. I know it's a difficult concept to wrap your head around, but you never look at outliers, think of basic Statistics.

Don't expect any more from people as you're one of those who is disseminating false information. Writing up lies and half truths is low bud. Every thread it's QQ and now in this one you say "Guys Guys! This isn't QQ, these are facts!" and load it up with BS. You're making stuff up so do everyone a favor and please stop.

Everyone already knows about Maras/Sents, we don't need you to feed falsehoods into the QQ that are the PVP forums.
Pax Imperius & Pax Dominus
Arash a.k.a. "Chuck Norris of PVP"