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Debunking false ideas about Mara/Sents in PVP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Debunking false ideas about Mara/Sents in PVP

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
11.12.2012 , 12:31 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post

As for "no such thing as ranged advantage" - yes there is, and it can be capitalized upon.
Please do explain. I am all ears

I hope you are not just talking about your sniper; the one class that has effective counters to Mele. You can't rule out Marauder abilities just because there is one class that can counter them. There is only one ability in the game that doesn't have a counter: and that's Undying Rage. Note that it's the mechanic of COVER/ENTRENCH and the snipers own defensive abilities/Knockback that give him the advantage NOT the fact that his attacks are 30m.

The sniper I believe is another class with a very full tool-box, but IMO is not as powerful as a marauder.

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
11.12.2012 , 12:39 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Crawelc View Post
Do NOT waste your breath on these qq threads. Bioware knows that we are exactly where we need to be in pvp/pve. While there are other classes that need to be brought up a bit, we are no where near as far ahead as these people would have you believe. Every tool we have is vital for us to be able to do our job which is to deal damage. Let the QQ pile to the sky. This is the last nerf mara/sent thread I will ever click on.
I certainly hope you are true to your word and never post again. Your post screams "don't nerf me" which is annoying to me because that's not what this thread is calling for if you stopped to read it.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
11.12.2012 , 12:42 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
No problem. And please understand that this is NOT a qq nerf thread like some have already said. With the exception of the rage smash spec, I like marauders where they are right now. I think destroying the tools they have would just make the class unfun to play.

The problem as I see it is that some classes DONT HAVE counters for anyone. Like you said snipers are in a pretty good place. Op/Sins have stealth advantage and good burst. PT's have the best burst in the game.

Personally if I game design were left up to me I would do two things. First change resolve so that a stun would give you 50% resolve and a snare would give you 25% resolve. The I would make it so that full resolve lasted 15 seconds. I would also double the cooldown on every stun ability and make our stun breakers give us stun immunity for 5 seconds.

The second thing I would do is increase the toolbox of Mercenaries. They just don't counter anybody and are not very good at anything in particular. That's dumb imo.

Of course damage tweaks need to be done here and there, but I see the big problem has to do with the previous two points.

So yeah, definitely not calling for Mara nerfs, but I think people need to recognize how powerful marauders tools are before they will be open to giving other classes powerful tools as well.
This is probably what you should have put in your OP then. What you posted was a Mara QQ thread against your best intentions. Seeing as BW has already stated on the forum that Mercs need more tools and every person posting has said that Mercs need more tools, I'm not sure what the point of this post was.
I have opinions and stuff

Helig's Avatar


Helig
11.12.2012 , 01:06 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
Please do explain. I am all ears

I hope you are not just talking about your sniper; the one class that has effective counters to Mele. You can't rule out Marauder abilities just because there is one class that can counter them. There is only one ability in the game that doesn't have a counter: and that's Undying Rage. Note that it's the mechanic of COVER/ENTRENCH and the snipers own defensive abilities/Knockback that give him the advantage NOT the fact that his attacks are 30m.

The sniper I believe is another class with a very full tool-box, but IMO is not as powerful as a marauder.
Flashbang

I hit him from where he cannot hit me. He cannot get to me without exposing himself to 25 meters of pain without Camo, at which point I can reset the fight, potentially putting him into an even more disadvantageous position (I am positioned on a higher ground, and I knock him down a level, for example).

As for the Sage, my main advantage is still range. I can hit him where he cannot hit me. Managing his resolve and my countermeasures respectively became easier with the recent normalization of Resolve. In case with Sniper, the Marauder can get an opener only with Camo, but with Sage, he opens first most of the time. However, each of his gapclosers can be countered in a sterile 1v1 situation (though the new Force Wave made it somewhat trickier with occasional desynchs during circle-strafing). If environment permits the usage of LoS, it's also possible to make it work in your favor. Group environment, naturally, has a whole different set of dynamics, including peeling and assists.

As for Commando, which I also play (Assault), I've got nothing, really. This is indeed the case that you're describing. I do manage to kill Marauders, but those are either FOTM rerolls, or undergeared players. My best bet is usually DoTing him up and minimizing my exposure with line of sight and cleansing whatever I can.

To summarize the general rule of ToR is - if you're ranged and you're being attacked by melee, you're on the defensive, but you are, in most cases, by no means defenseless. And I think this sort of balance is more fair than melee being the mouse and ranged being the cat, because in this case, the imbalance would have been significantly more pronounced.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

BoDiE's Avatar


BoDiE
11.12.2012 , 01:07 PM | #15
Nerf marauders and nerf then now. They all cried for a sorc and op nerf. Now it's their turn.
epicfail
Nothing ever good comes from gaming forums.

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
11.12.2012 , 01:08 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
This is probably what you should have put in your OP then. What you posted was a Mara QQ thread against your best intentions. Seeing as BW has already stated on the forum that Mercs need more tools and every person posting has said that Mercs need more tools, I'm not sure what the point of this post was.
The point is that the vast majority of marauders are not very honest when talking about their abilities. They downplay their tools and get very defensive when anyone comes close to suggesting they are very powerful. Whether this attitude comes from a severe lack of knowledge or an attempt to avoid getting nerfed, this kind of attitude is detrimental.

Like I said: people need to recognize the power of of tools available to certain classes before they are open to giving other classes powerful tools as well.

Royox's Avatar


Royox
11.12.2012 , 01:13 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Exgrunt View Post
Yes and they are needed. We are a melee non-stealth(the stealth we get IMO is is usless unless spec in carnage tree which allows it to break roots) that in order to be effective is pretty much always right in the middle of the fight. I'm always surrounded by most of the enemy team( I find that fun btw even though I know I'm gonna lose) and yes I always die at some point, sometimes without getting a kill, sometimes after killing most of them. None of the defensive cooldowns we have give us anything less than what is needed to be a viable class.
Vanguards are Melee non-stealth DPS and we only have Reactive Shield as defensive CD (25% dmg reduction).

You have Saber Ward (25% dmg reduction and +50% defense), the cloak of pain (25% dmg reduction and every hit increases duration top 30s...and returns damage!), 4 sec Stealth (with 50% dmg reduction), Undyyng (4 sec god mode).


Marauder has too many defensive CD's. Make Saber Ward a Guardian/Juggernaut exclusive skill would be a fine move.


You can say "Vanguard is the class with higher burst damage of the game".....Pointless when 75% of the encounter time vs a Mara he is using some defensive CD.

Dovahbrah's Avatar


Dovahbrah
11.12.2012 , 01:16 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Crawelc View Post
Do NOT waste your breath on these qq threads. Bioware knows that we are exactly where we need to be in pvp/pve. While there are other classes that need to be brought up a bit, we are no where near as far ahead as these people would have you believe. Every tool we have is vital for us to be able to do our job which is to deal damage. Let the QQ pile to the sky. This is the last nerf mara/sent thread I will ever click on.
Keep reassuring yourself.
Leaf - 50 Commando - The Fatman Notleaf - 50 Juggernaught - POT5
Leafe - 50 Shadow - The Fatman
Leafy - 50 Vanguard - The Fatman
Leafyy - 50 Sentinel - The Fatman

BoDiE's Avatar


BoDiE
11.12.2012 , 01:16 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Royox View Post
Vanguards are Melee non-stealth DPS and we only have Reactive Shield as defensive CD (25% dmg reduction).

You have Saber Ward (25% dmg reduction and +50% defense), the cloak of pain (25% dmg reduction and every hit increases duration top 30s...and returns damage!), 4 sec Stealth (with 50% dmg reduction), Undyyng (4 sec god mode).


Marauder has too many defensive CD's. Make Saber Ward a Guardian/Juggernaut exclusive skill would be a fine move.
Precisely. The class is too easy to play and they won't accept it.
epicfail
Nothing ever good comes from gaming forums.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.12.2012 , 01:21 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
Phaser
The Shadowlands
so instead of QQing about how bad mercs damage is, your gonna QQ about maras.

what a shocking turn of events