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Stealth Classes are UnBalanced

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Stealth Classes are UnBalanced

Expo-Nential's Avatar


Expo-Nential
01.13.2013 , 03:03 AM | #201
Quote: Originally Posted by oninojb View Post
Only agreement I'll give is that it's BS that a Shadow/Assassin can pull 350k damage while pulling 150k defense AND 150k heals in one wz. TANKS should not be leading the damage boards, even if it IS a hybrid spec, or the healing boards and certainly not all three.
This is OT but, if that shadow/assassin is pulling those numbers against you; its your team's fault not their's (AND it was a lengthy abnormal WZ).
and if a hybrid tank keeps leading the dps, the actual dpser's weren't up to par.
It's basic math that hybrid tanks , by obvious design, CANNOT put out the damage that a full dps class can.
Just look at the tree skills and tool tips.. it's all right there.

tacito's Avatar


tacito
01.13.2013 , 04:56 AM | #202
150k heal from a shadow tank/balance hybrid in augmented dps WH would require a 12 minute warzone, in which:

The shadow is never, ever killed.
He proccs everything as soon as it comes off internal cooldown
None of his abilities ever overheal
Force in Balance always hits three targets as soon as it is off CD
He is never, ever stunned during Telekinetic Throw
All of this starts the very first second of the warzone.
He actually has enough force to do all of this on cooldown

If that happens, there's a chance he's pulling off around 163k healing. But I'd say, if you see healing numbers above maybe half of that, it's inflated by warzone medpacks or other players' (healers') abilites, because no way in hell did the shadow do that with class abilities.

I agree that they have a lot of healing output, but it's not like they can spam 5k heals on themselves endlessly, like some people make it sound.

Aerilas's Avatar


Aerilas
01.13.2013 , 04:59 AM | #203
*********** necro's. i even remember this thread. OP was just a kiddie who wouldnt listen to anyone
Vis Fatalis
Caineghis (Sniper)
Tomb of Freedon Nadd

PloGreen's Avatar


PloGreen
01.13.2013 , 05:13 AM | #204
Quote: Originally Posted by TripleCharged View Post
Am I the only one that feels this way? Every time I pvp, whether it be on my Gunslinger(50/50 WH/BM), or my SageDPS(not yet level 50). Stealth classes slaughter me and many other people I see. The is no good, reliable way to counter a stealth class. They can run away from a losing fight with a single button click. They can pop out of stealth and take your health down(or kill you) before their stuns are finished to the point where you are unable to combat them anymore. Even if these classes did not have stealth they would be able to stand their own in a PVP match cause they are strong enough without it, but when you add stealth to the equation they become nearly unstoppable in 1v1 fights. Many of my deaths come from some stealther sitting around waiting for me to walk by them, or singling me out as I am on my way to battle, or as I am defending a turret they come up and stealth kill me, giving me the choice of calling out to my teammates and dieing, or trying to fight them and usually lose.
I removed my vanguard because I was a bad player in poor gear when I played on him in PVP, I no longer gear him for pvp.
Both Sage and Gunslinger dont do that well against stealth classes really. Thats kind of the point mate.

PloGreen's Avatar


PloGreen
01.13.2013 , 05:18 AM | #205
Quote: Originally Posted by Asunasan View Post
Stealth dps is actually supposed to be the hard counter to snipers so that's often going to be a losing fight. As a sorc always have your bubble up even if no one is around. Stealthies could debateably be put in the soft counter category for dps sorcs, though if you have the stun bubble you can **** sealthers. As a PT Tank, your job is really to hold the off node long enough to get help more than it is to win the 1v1. You have the tools to stall for plenty long enough for your team to help if they are going to. As a side note Tank PTs are probably the least useful of the tank ACs at a competative level, you might want to respec pyro before gearing too far.
You are correct a well played stealth class are the bane to both gunslingers and dps sages. Not saying its impossible to beat them, but it is in the stealth classes favour (not dps sages or gunslingers) one on one. The opening burst of an OP or Assassin is what will determine the outcome. You can nuke them down with either classs but the advantage of stealth is (obviously) they get the opener before you do, and can stun lock you. Add to this assassins are just a good all round class anyway, with decent mobility, cc and defensive cooldowns. They are strong (but balanced) imo.

Ops? I dunno a well played OP/scrapper is rare imo. Once their opening burst is gone, you can kite them to death, just depends on how strong the OP/scrapper is I guess, and how good you are on a sage or gunslinger. I suppose the timing of the attack is everything if the sage is bubble stun (e.g hit them when the bubble is down).

dufox's Avatar


dufox
01.13.2013 , 07:05 AM | #206
Quote: Originally Posted by TripleCharged View Post
or as I am defending a turret they come up and stealth kill me, giving me the choice of calling out to my teammates and dieing, or trying to fight them and usually lose.
I removed my vanguard because I was a bad player in poor gear when I played on him in PVP, I no longer gear him for pvp.
pro tip of the day - when your solo defending press enter, type 1 west (or whatever ur defending) and wait. it will make your life easier .

secondly, (surely this has been pointed out already) if you have a vanguard and you dont use him for pvp then you are making a very VERY bad decision.
i dont need a sig, im famous *****

xxIncubixx's Avatar


xxIncubixx
01.13.2013 , 07:48 AM | #207
lol both sith assassin and operative are both pretty fail in DPS spec... unless the class outgears but even then as a gunslinger you have no problem versus these unless you are terribad. if u were a merc then i would say yes.

PloGreen's Avatar


PloGreen
01.13.2013 , 07:52 AM | #208
Quote: Originally Posted by xxIncubixx View Post
lol both sith assassin and operative are both pretty fail in DPS spec... unless the class outgears but even then as a gunslinger you have no problem versus these unless you are terribad. if u were a merc then i would say yes.
Both of those classes are not "no problem" for gunslingers if they are played to their full potential. Not many ops are played to their full potential tbh.

iamef's Avatar


iamef
01.13.2013 , 08:49 AM | #209
I once had a Commando and had a problem with stealthers...

Then I took an ar.... err, I mean, then I rolled a Vanguard.
--- Er'nesto / Er'nestoo / Nestero / Ėrnesto ---

WOOK -- The Shadowlands

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
01.13.2013 , 10:24 AM | #210
Quote: Originally Posted by PloGreen View Post
Both of those classes are not "no problem" for gunslingers if they are played to their full potential. Not many ops are played to their full potential tbh.
Totally true. In the Sniper vs. Scrapper fight, you see a lot of misuse of Scrapper abilities. The big failures are below:
1) Use Triage to remove the knockback root. As you run in, throw down your DOT (if it isn't already down) and/or your ranged Thermal Grenade ability (decent kinetic damage)
2) A good Sniper will use Leg Shot after you cleanse the Knockback root. That's when you pop Evasion. If you are lucky, you will also cleanse some DOTs with this.
3) If the Sniper entrenches and you HAVEN'T yet used Dirty Kick, my advice is honestly to just back away. You can LOS them around a pillar (particularly useful on Civil War and Novare Coast), or just use Disappearing Act to get away and start the fight over. Dirty Kick is such a huge blowout in damage and HP loss, so if you can't get it in your rotation, you really need to star the fight over.
4) Toss down self-heals when possible. Even just one Underworld Medicine, especially if critted, will instantly turn a fight around. Make sure you Tendon Blast beforehand, or the Sniper will just follow you and interrupt.

Basically, it's not an "easy" fight for Scrappers, but it is certainly doable. Similarly, as any decent Sniper can tell you, there are other measures that class can take to make the Scrapper's life even more difficult. For example, if the Sniper Debilitates you, do you pop escape or do you eat the damage? If you pop escape and get Flashbanged, you are in a LOT of trouble. The Sniper will reposition, drop Explosive Probe on you, and rip you apart with a huge combo. If you don't pop escape and they didn't have flashbang up, however, then you lose out on valuable HP and DPS.

In summary, the matchup is NOT predetermined (as the quoted poster suggested). This is a fun, challenging, and stressful matchup (especially for the Scrapper) that comes down to skill, plus gear and CD availability.
The Outlaw Miyke Fink: Scrapper, Prophecy of the Five
See you, space cowboys!: Formerly of Brown Coats
---THE SCRAPPER'S HANDBOOK: A PvP Guide---