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Guarding?


BA-CannonFodder's Avatar


BA-CannonFodder
11.08.2012 , 01:00 PM | #1
I'm new to the mechanics of pvp so I am curious as to whether I should be guarding. For some reason I don't see alot of my allies or enemies using it, so I am wondering if I am doing something wrong. On the side note, I am a juggernaut and wondering if I should be dps/def spec. I am currently in a def spec and my total dmg /wz is around 33k and protection 20-50k - I have lag so I am wondering if these are adequate numbers or if my lag is killing my dmg. Ty to all for your help.

Dnepr's Avatar


Dnepr
11.08.2012 , 02:18 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by BA-CannonFodder View Post
I'm new to the mechanics of pvp so I am curious as to whether I should be guarding. For some reason I don't see alot of my allies or enemies using it, so I am wondering if I am doing something wrong. On the side note, I am a juggernaut and wondering if I should be dps/def spec. I am currently in a def spec and my total dmg /wz is around 33k and protection 20-50k - I have lag so I am wondering if these are adequate numbers or if my lag is killing my dmg. Ty to all for your help.
Yes, Guard is important especially for your healers. It can be difficult to use effectively sometimes, especially in pugs, because you have to stay within range of that guarded person for it to have an effect. With those protection numbers you are obviously taking advantage of taunts, which is perfect. Your protection numbers will get better the more you play.

You will probably get more people saying to go DPS over Defense. I say try them both and see what you like. I personally play Defense spec and find it to be a blast in PVP. No, your damage will not be top tier, but it will also get much better than the numbers you are seeing now. A Defense Jug can be a valuable team member due to your utility. We are also fantastic ball handlers in Hutt Ball. Practice, practice, practice.

What level are you?
Quote: Originally Posted by VandisFet View Post
...It is a War Zone, not a shopping mall....
Play hard, or go watch the Lifetime channel.

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
11.08.2012 , 03:22 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by BA-CannonFodder View Post
I'm new to the mechanics of pvp so I am curious as to whether I should be guarding. For some reason I don't see alot of my allies or enemies using it, so I am wondering if I am doing something wrong. On the side note, I am a juggernaut and wondering if I should be dps/def spec. I am currently in a def spec and my total dmg /wz is around 33k and protection 20-50k - I have lag so I am wondering if these are adequate numbers or if my lag is killing my dmg. Ty to all for your help.
Guard: You should always guard people, if you choose to be in soresu form and geared for defense. Since you are not contributing to the other catergories, taunting/peeling/guarding is the only valuable thing you can do as a Tank in PVP. Guarding healers/guildies takes priority, but even if you and a DPS are guarding a node, you should have your guard up on them.

Spec: You might need to tweak your spec. Hybrid is the only way to go, if you plan on taunting/peeling/guarding. This is the guide I started with for my alt.
http://watchmen.activeboard.com/t501...hole-guardian/
I wanted a class that could fend off a certain OP'd melee class. It definately worked better for my style (at the core is defense), but I still felt it was lacking because the mitigation/defense was just not strong enough to warrant the 27/12/2 spec... Since 1.4, I have moved to a more balanced approach, which I feel is the only "true" balanced spec for this AC. With the smash/sweep buff, it was stupid not to tweak the Hybrid spec, so I moved to:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/g...k28-1c-2dde0ee

I feel the only real value in the tank trees are Warding Call/Invincible for mitigation, proc for no channel choke/stasis, and 8% damage increase. You can stay in Soresu, benefit from the good parts ot the tank tree (still taunting/peeling/guarding), while actually being able to deal out some damage. Even in Tank gear, my Smash Proc was hitting over 4K. That is about as much burst as a Sage/Sorc on a single attack, but you still get the best CD the class has in Warding Call/Invincible. Losing Unremitting/Unstoppable hurts, but I think the damage and 2nd leap/immobilize outweighs the utility in UN/UN.

Numbers: A "Pure Tank" number's are never very good in a WZ, especially if healers are not present. It's another reason why I respecd. If a healer is present, I can taunt/peel/guard just as good as the guide's or my tweaked hybrid spec. The difference is when a healer isn't around. I actually have enough DPS to dish out some pain. So my numbers are generally in the 150-200k range when a healer isn't around, and 300k+ when one is...

Also Guardian Leap/Intercede is your friend for good protection numbers. And if you can, while in battle, swap guard on people that are losing fast HP or being focused. Your protection should be around 50-75k+ if no healer is around , or 100K+ if one is.

Also don't discount your healz from Endure/Endure pain. This should stay on constant CD, and you should also be using a PvP medpack after you pop Endure (if it is off CD). I typically get 75k+ heals (lol, right).

Overall, you should be looking at 150K-75k-75K at a minimum, unless the enemies quit. Also go looking for trouble... My sig says I am trying to be Ray Tango, but for a tank, trying to Rambo 3+ guarding a node helps your team (assuming they are trying to cap an opposite one).. You are a punching bag, so don't be worried about dying. It's your job to die, but make it hurt and make it take a long while before they kill you. I am sure the Maras on my server find me incredibly annoying....



TL;DR
1. If you are in Soresu, always guard people, even DPS.
2. Try hybrid spec, and stay in Soresu.
3. Tweak your playstyle and utility a bit..
4. Profit...
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

TeamDefiant's Avatar


TeamDefiant
11.08.2012 , 04:19 PM | #4
Guarding healers and taunting targets attacking them can help the protection numbers. But the mistake I see defense tanks make in pvp is that they are guarding the best geared healer. That may be wise, but it can be the cause of small protection numbers in that, one, they tend to know how not to be targets and get hit all the time, and two, they have great gear and mitigate more on their own. If you want to see those numbers soar, guard the healer in recruit gear. Aside from them being greatful, and you effectively power multiplying their contribution, they will get focused and your guard will go off like crazy. Then you'll see really high protection numbers.

Taunts are much simpler. If the opponent keeps wacking on the same target, you're reducing their damage even though they are ignoring you. The aoe taunt on someone focusing on a healer you're guarding will get you about 4-5 medals in 15 seconds. And if you do that all match you end up with protection numbers that look like top end dps or healing numbers.

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
11.08.2012 , 07:17 PM | #5
Everyone keeps saying that taunt ups your protection numbers, but I thought taunt showed up as healing? I'm pretty sure mine does (Shadow Tank) . If it shows up as protection, then how am I'm getting all that healing each WZ?

[Edit] - Oh, and beyond all that advise up there, I'd say specifically for huttball look to guard the ball carrier if you are not him/her.

Zeaza's Avatar


Zeaza
11.09.2012 , 01:38 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
Everyone keeps saying that taunt ups your protection numbers, but I thought taunt showed up as healing? I'm pretty sure mine does (Shadow Tank) . If it shows up as protection, then how am I'm getting all that healing each WZ?

[Edit] - Oh, and beyond all that advise up there, I'd say specifically for huttball look to guard the ball carrier if you are not him/her.
Taunt ups protection healing from harness shadows proc with tele throw

Dnepr's Avatar


Dnepr
11.09.2012 , 08:12 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post

Spec: You might need to tweak your spec. Hybrid is the only way to go, if you plan on taunting/peeling/guarding. This is the guide I started with for my alt.
http://watchmen.activeboard.com/t501...hole-guardian/
I tried your spec yesterday. First game was pretty crappy for me getting used to losing one of my stuns. I didn't like giving up my lower cool downs on force push either. Next two games were much better. <10m leap was very nice to have. Oh, and of course, SMASH! I'm going to screw around with it for a bit longer. Thanks for posting.
Quote: Originally Posted by VandisFet View Post
...It is a War Zone, not a shopping mall....
Play hard, or go watch the Lifetime channel.

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
11.09.2012 , 09:04 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Dnepr View Post
I tried your spec yesterday. First game was pretty crappy for me getting used to losing one of my stuns. I didn't like giving up my lower cool downs on force push either. Next two games were much better. <10m leap was very nice to have. Oh, and of course, SMASH! I'm going to screw around with it for a bit longer. Thanks for posting.
Yeah, that took some getting use to for me as well. I think the situational DPS makes up for it though.

Also, if your Force crit rating is under 30% buffed, you might want to move a second point in the smash crit proc. My Force crit is like 37% buffed, so I only put one point in there. As long as you are alternating between the Stasis/Choke & Combat Focus/Enrage for your 25% smash proc, you can frequently crit without needing to leap. I find the second leap much more valuable as another root, especially at the hazards in HB. Leap>Stun>Leap, but don't overlap.
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

funkiestj's Avatar


funkiestj
11.09.2012 , 11:12 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
Everyone keeps saying that taunt ups your protection numbers, but I thought taunt showed up as healing? I'm pretty sure mine does (Shadow Tank) . If it shows up as protection, then how am I'm getting all that healing each WZ?
I made the same mistake. turn on logging and upload your log to Mr. Robot.

Enure counts as healing. Focused defense may count as healing.

Do a WZ with no taunts or guards and you will see you have healing numbers but no protection.

Mr. Hat says "BW support is the best"!
I am a bad player, so what?

BA-CannonFodder's Avatar


BA-CannonFodder
11.09.2012 , 11:39 AM | #10
I'm lvl 50 with recruit pvp gear working towards next tier