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Telekinetics Sage Suggestions

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Telekinetics Sage Suggestions

AokijiKuzan's Avatar


AokijiKuzan
11.08.2012 , 01:36 AM | #1
After choosing to play a Sage at launch, I've gone with the Telekinetics tree nonstop. I really have enjoyed learning and experiencing this from being quite a rookie to wanting to min-max and delivering everything this tree has to offer. Although by now I have several characters, most of my thoughts will still go out to this particular PvE-oriented spec. For a while now I've been coming up with a few ideas on how we might improve.

Do TK Sages need improving? Well, especially in PvP there's not a lot we can do; but I also feel we (DPS Sages as a whole) are a below-par choice to take into the hardest operations for endgame PvE, solely judging on a class-based standpoint. We are certainly capable of clearing any content, but I'd prefer if our bar could be raised to at least in-line with the average - staying within the mythical '5%' BioWare has told us about.
While I have more interest and experience in PvE, where we need less help, I'm trying to think of things that will help us as a whole to raise the DPS output.

Before I start suggesting things, I'd like to note they may turn out lengthy, as I discuss pros & cons I might see to the suggestion, or various implementations & impacts. There's really endless ideas out there, but these are more reasonable ones that I could actually see or want to see happen. Keep in mind these are damage-based suggestions.

Suggestion 1:
Spoiler

Suggestion 2:
Spoiler

Suggestion 3:
Spoiler

Suggestion 4:
Spoiler

Bonus Suggestion for Balance:
Spoiler


Well, these are a few of my thoughts on possible TK changes. I didn't delve too much into new abilities or skills as I don't think those are necessary. I also steered clear of utility, as I think those type of skills shift the dynamics quite a bit more. (You need to take into account interactions with other classes specifically etc.) Though it's also interesting to think about, so who knows, one of those might come up. Same with defensive cooldowns (although I would quite want one of those - Sages get Guarded by the Force now instead of Sentinels, shift the QQ).

Thank you for checking out my thread. Feel free to drop your own suggestions in a comment down below.

warstory's Avatar


warstory
11.08.2012 , 02:18 AM | #2
1 2 and 3 get my vote. It should have been internal dmg from the start makes no sense why it's not. Or add a internal dot effect to it. I want to see something that ties turburlance to the rest of the skill tree weaken effects tk throw and turbalance, disturbance effects tk wave there is no synergy there. The closes thing I got to a rotation is

Mind crush - weaken mind - disturbance (till tk wave proc ) - turbalance - tk wave - project - tk throw
You get a nice chunk of burst from turbalance and tk wave being used back to back but it doesn't flow and is a ton of setup

MisterMuse's Avatar


MisterMuse
11.08.2012 , 03:06 AM | #3
The telekinetic tree was never designed for PvP. Too much cast times which are easy to interrupt. Go with balance or a hybrid sped for PvP instead. Periodic damage abilities are of great value and with hybrid specs you can get a great deal of candy from both shops with a large amount of aoes and such.

Sure it won't give you smasher damage but it compensates with bubble and good self healing, along with a good amount of crowd control.

If you're having a problem in PvE as well, check out a few guides about the telekinetic, they've helped a good deal when analyzing rotations as such. Often we are left spamming disturbance while really filling the ten seconds after the telekinetic wave proc with telekinetic throw if all abilities are on cooldown would be a better option.

I can agree though that the 5% that Bioware is on about can possibly be fake. Sentinels and Gunslingers pretty much dominate the damage dealing. We do however have bubbles, combat revives, self heals, force speed and utility powers which can help a great deal. For example on Toth and Zorn Hard its really good having a Sage DPS which could revive a healing if the tanks mess up, place bubbles in the aoe faze, etc.

So while I agree that the damage could be higher I don't think its really a crisis at the moment. There is a lot more pressing matters the developers need sorting out at the current stage.
Raysho - Hybrid Sage
FahÚr - Combat Sentinel
JahÝr - Vigilance Guardian
SahÝr - Assault Vanguard

AokijiKuzan's Avatar


AokijiKuzan
11.08.2012 , 12:40 PM | #4
I agree with you MisterMuse.
I don't want Telekinetics to be reworked simply to be viable in PvP. I'm just interested in thinking about what a small damage buff could bring us up to. There should never be a huge influx of players flocking to TK for PvP. But if you wish to grab a PvP game here and there without having to respec each time, some small bonus could help us out to make the experience more enjoyable.

Keep in mind this is not a thread for personal trouble and with a thorough focus on damage-dealing abilities. I'm not trying to seek advice, as I said, we are definitely able to clear all content as we are and there aren't too much problems with that. Utility-wise, yeah, I am one of the few ranged in our guild, so I tend to be the one running around with some specific small tasks. Our utility is quite nice as is. But you don't bring utility to beat enrage timers.

That's definitely true, the developers should pay more attention elsewhere. I just like thinking of ideas like these and it got to a point where I wished to share them.
We're not far off each other in our standpoints.

Elyx's Avatar


Elyx
11.11.2012 , 05:18 PM | #5
In relation to your ideas, I don't think it's a bad idea to brainstorm. I like some of them quite a bit. but thinking on what you have up there...

#1/#2 - changing Dist to internal AND increasing it's crit damage is probably overkill. people would simply spam that and nothing else....it's useability coupled with the small-ish force cost would trump anything else we have in game. i think the issue is that it's our staple, as well as a critical proc creating ability. It already has a ton of useful items tagged to it that make it important in any rotation (that and its simply fun to cast! ).

but all those increases would turn it into the ONLY skill we would need. my Dist is already hitting for huge amounts. If it passed Turbulence....at that point we just killed our tree topping ability (which BTW is already internal and autocrits when played appropriately). I think that turning it into an internal ability may be enough. the other option I like is to increase the damage of the secondary proc on TM. up it from 30% to 50 or 60%.

#3 I like. simple and easy. more motivation to stay in place (when we can) and do more damage.

#4 not a huge fan of, solely for the reason that they would have to do something like increase the CD to compensate, and Im not a big fan of increasing CD's. messing with CD's can really mess up a rotation. an extra 3 seconds could easily mean we have downtime, or simply spamming Dist more often (which we don't need). plus, an increase on it's CC affects it EVERY time we cast, not only in the sub-30 range.

only conjecturing here...but either way, im not a fan of increased CD's. better to simply boost it's damage on sub 30 targets, and thats a simple addition to any talent in the tree. that in addition to the increased proc chance on #1 above would probably work.

really, we don't need a huge damage boost in raw damage. our biggest issue is flexibility in mobile environments not allowing us to bring our full potential to bear. In addition to the increased proc on TW, here's a few other ideas to help that flexibility (and help out on PvP too):

1) Make Psychic Projection also allow for Tk on the move, and increase the time frame it's up by a few seconds(2-3). this proc always seems to be just a bit too short to fully take advantage of it, especially when your being hit allot and cast times are a bit longer on your other skills. this would allow more movement along with a few fast channel to apply steady damage while on the move. It can still be interrupted, so it's not guaranteed. but in PvP it would be a huge help. The extra few seconds allows for more versatility....like if you have to run around some obstacles to get your target into view, or if you get stunned just as it procs.

2) Add Turbulence to Telekinetic Momentum. this would give us a single target high damage skill as an alternative to TW with this skill. it would give us a use for telekinetic momentum in times when situations don't allow us to use an AoE, and it adds another skill to the bag of tools the PvP player could use on the run effectively if needed.

Most your other ideas are interesting, but just different variations on adding damage to attacks. My ideas also increase flexibility, but retain what I think is the essence of the telekinetic tree...burst and AoE damage.
"I just hit 50 and finished my class storyline, but I still haven't been able to decide which AC to choose. Leveling solo as a warrior wasn't difficult, so I kept putting off the decision.
Anyone else having the same problem? "~ lagerhat - And who says warriors are broke?

AokijiKuzan's Avatar


AokijiKuzan
11.12.2012 , 06:06 AM | #6
Any of these chances should be a singular change. So yeah, definitely no 1 AND 2. I agree we'd be going back to the Tracer Missile era if that were to happen.

I get it, it changes things quite a lot. Not only an addition to an ability, but it forces us to adjust our playstyle. In my eyes, that's a fun thing to *test*, but it's not often a viable option to implement (as it will come with many different opinions towards it).


Well, as far as our damage goes I tend to do pretty well too, no complaints in Operations. However I think to keep adding more interesting fight mechanics will definitely result in tougher times for casters. Ofc it will be tougher for anyone at that point. But I've recently started clearing endgame content on my Powertech, which is the first melee I'm using to do so (and one of the least mobile melee classes along with Operative). And I find that in a situation where my TK Sage would also be allowed to stand still and freecast, my Ptech usually has enough time to run up (possibly with an Explosive Dart or Rail Shot whereas my Sage would only be able to apply Weaken Mind if I hadn't yet, if I'm lucky TK Wave, or otherwise a slightly wasteful Project), and also be allowed to perfectly apply my rotation. In such a situation where melee & ranged are 'delayed' equally, melee should start to pull ahead in DPS.
In a more dynamic & interactive end-game situation of PvP, we can already see the trend of melee dominating other classes (thank god for Gunslinger cover!), and casters being the least wanted in your team. Towards the future, the gap might become bigger for PvE as well. BUT! We are not there yet, so it's fine to keep us as we are for a little while longer.


I think that's a very troublesome implementation; having cast times or channeled times on the move. It's clear they didn't want to attempt this at launch, I don't think this will change a year or even longer into the game. It might be a great change, but if there's other options this might be put on the backburner.
That said, yeah, it would be very helpful. More chance to choose when to use it as well as a new skill that allows us to re-position ourselves.

I like this second one. Any double-attack is visually satisfying and a nice damage booster.
I could also see an addition of Turbulence to Tidal Force, allowing for higher up-time potential on TK Wave, which is already our best on-the-go move if we need to reposition while trying to keep up the damage.


Thanks for the response~

warstory's Avatar


warstory
11.13.2012 , 05:34 AM | #7
the more i think about it and play with tk i think adding Turbulence to Tidal Force and Telekinetic Momentum would be enough to create synergy and mobility. Tremors stacked 5 times would be nice too.

eventidephoenix's Avatar


eventidephoenix
11.14.2012 , 12:56 AM | #8
Agree with the first 3,

4 is tricky... It will give people some incentive to use it for pvp but it will be o/p in my opinion... A massive AOE instant cast as long as one person is below 30% cannot be trifled with :/

On the other hand our class deserves a "finisher" move...