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If we don't have CC, what DO we have?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
If we don't have CC, what DO we have?

Dacer's Avatar


Dacer
11.08.2012 , 01:11 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by SajPl View Post
If a sent can give the whole team a speed buff and a healing/damage buff or do party wide healing (ive seen 150k healing done by a marauder) why cant a sage cast stun bubble on the whole team? Stun bubble is fine.
I play a marauder and you are correct, the class has some great group utility.

If the stun bubble filled resolve like all other hard stuns then it would be okay
If the stun bubble broke on Damage it would be fine
If the stun bubble only " stunned" when it was on the caster it would be fine.

Problem is it isn't limited by any of the above. I'm perfectly cool with Socs having it but it needs to be adjusted.... Just like the jugg/ Mara Rage tree should probably be looked over and adjusted.

Asunasan's Avatar


Asunasan
11.08.2012 , 01:12 AM | #22
I think a dps scoundrel relies on CC as much as a dps sage. lets not forget that when calling for CC nerfs across the board. And yes I'm aware scoundrels don't have a bubble stun.

Alizaro's Avatar


Alizaro
11.08.2012 , 01:41 AM | #23
I had a dot spec sage take me to half health while I was killing it with another marauder. It came back and I was rescued again, no cc on the sages part with a a full wh, mostly itemized annihilation marauder, he got me to less than 5%. l2p? I did, always room for improvement.

Is it possible that class has more versatility than most give it credit for? Or was that guy just .... You get the picture.

If anyone can tell me what spec he was playing I'd be interested. Only thing to save me would have been a dot cleansing healer, and I've purged more than my share of that class. Is it possible there's more diversity to the class than a majority of people know?
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JackNader's Avatar


JackNader
11.08.2012 , 02:21 AM | #24
Dot spec sorcs are the most common spec.

In terms of gear you want 2 pieces of force master and 2 pieces of force mystic. The force master gives you heal on crushing darkness which you should be casting on every wrath proc. The mystic gear lowers the lockout of your bubble talent.

With parasitism and it's upgrade you have 3 dots which heal on crit. Creeping terror roots the target for 2 seconds which allows you to dot and kite. When played correctly it is actually quite hardy. It is absolutely useless vs other sorcs tho as all you need to do to shut them down is cleanse.

On the flip side operative's lethality spec is still useful vs other operatives because it applies weaker version of dots on cleanse. This lets you still cull targets, etc.

xxIncubixx's Avatar


xxIncubixx
11.08.2012 , 04:50 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by TheAlopex View Post
As a DPS Sage/Sorc.

We don't have the tools to stand against the big boys of damage. PT/ Van, Snipe/Guns, Mara/Sent, Jugg/Guard all outdps us and slice through our squishiness in no time.

They all do huge burst DPS while our DPS is DoT, meaning they wipe us before our damage even gets the chance to tick all the way through.
Everyone knows burst is king in PvP. That makes us peasants. Possibly even pheasants.

All of their attacks are instant, ours can be interrupted with extreme ease (except for 10 secs every 2 mins... Woo). Guns/Snipe are immune to interrupts. And while they even get CC immunity (every 60 secs for 20 secs) to counter their lack of mobility, we get nothing and are still not mobile at all due to our cast times.

All of them have defensive cooldowns and can outsurvive us easily.

All our DPS can be effectively nullified by a 5 sec cooldown Restoration/Purge.

So everyone whines about resolve, CC, bubble stun, and overall wanting CC to be way less effective, and what will that leave us with? At the moment our only purpose is CCing. It's what balances us and gives us some survivability.

Maybe the problem is TOO MANY OTHER CLASSES CAN CC TOO MUCH. Maybe instead we should nerf everyone else's CC and make Sage/Sorc possibly a dedicated CC AC. If you want to lock someone down, you'll need a Sage/Sorc. I think that would be better balance.

We already have more CC related talents in our trees than any other AT, so maybe that was the original vision at some point...
i like the fact that u didnt put merc/commando just proves that the class is total garbage

Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
11.08.2012 , 05:47 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by truchaos View Post
I think the biggest issue that people have with stunbubble is the fact that you can put it on your entire team.

If the stun part only was applied to the sage/sorc's self-bubble then it wouldn't be a problem and you would get to keep the cc.
You are ignorant; the sage needs bubbles to pop on himself AND in his vicinity in order to stay alive long enough to help his team at a level equal to any other class.
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
11.08.2012 , 06:01 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Lejune View Post
Well the snipers/marauders must not be doing their jobs in your wzs. Because we are killing healers and softies first and they have zero defense for snipers...unless they bubble and run the entire fight.
Actually I have a better chance of killing a sniper than an assassin.
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

Ycoga's Avatar


Ycoga
11.08.2012 , 06:04 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Alizaro View Post
I had a dot spec sage take me to half health while I was killing it with another marauder. It came back and I was rescued again, no cc on the sages part with a a full wh, mostly itemized annihilation marauder, he got me to less than 5%. l2p? I did, always room for improvement.

Is it possible that class has more versatility than most give it credit for? Or was that guy just .... You get the picture.

If anyone can tell me what spec he was playing I'd be interested. Only thing to save me would have been a dot cleansing healer, and I've purged more than my share of that class. Is it possible there's more diversity to the class than a majority of people know?
What the heck are you saying here? Your post is very self-centered; you don't play a sage and this post is something about two marauders killing a sage together.

So what?
'Pre-2.0 PvP... The gear gap was too big and some players became non-contributors quickly because of the gear gap. It wasn’t fun for the majority of players' - Alex Modny

Groncho's Avatar


Groncho
11.08.2012 , 06:09 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by TheAlopex View Post
As a DPS Sage/Sorc.

We don't have the tools to stand against the big boys of damage. PT/ Van, Snipe/Guns, Mara/Sent, Jugg/Guard all outdps us and slice through our squishiness in no time.

They all do huge burst DPS while our DPS is DoT, meaning they wipe us before our damage even gets the chance to tick all the way through.
Everyone knows burst is king in PvP. That makes us peasants. Possibly even pheasants.

All of their attacks are instant, ours can be interrupted with extreme ease (except for 10 secs every 2 mins... Woo). Guns/Snipe are immune to interrupts. And while they even get CC immunity (every 60 secs for 20 secs) to counter their lack of mobility, we get nothing and are still not mobile at all due to our cast times.

All of them have defensive cooldowns and can outsurvive us easily.

All our DPS can be effectively nullified by a 5 sec cooldown Restoration/Purge.

So everyone whines about resolve, CC, bubble stun, and overall wanting CC to be way less effective, and what will that leave us with? At the moment our only purpose is CCing. It's what balances us and gives us some survivability.

Maybe the problem is TOO MANY OTHER CLASSES CAN CC TOO MUCH. Maybe instead we should nerf everyone else's CC and make Sage/Sorc possibly a dedicated CC AC. If you want to lock someone down, you'll need a Sage/Sorc. I think that would be better balance.

We already have more CC related talents in our trees than any other AT, so maybe that was the original vision at some point...
The class was pretty good at 1.2
It's a shame how they destroyed it
in fact i call for a rollback to 1.2 for this class it wouldn't hurt actual pvp
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RogueNights's Avatar


RogueNights
11.08.2012 , 08:33 AM | #30
I actually kinda like the state of cc in this game.. am not sure about stun bubbles though, sages using stun bubble on themselves to survive does not really worry me, its more in conjunction w/ others.. e.g. giving a smasher the stun bubble ability is not a good idea at all, so how is giving it to a sage who can cast it on anyone he wants and gives it to a smasher a good idea? its like the ultimate combo mobility of leaping, instant off gcd aoe chain stun, and huge aoe dps.. and the thing is most people only tap a small fraction of the potential effectiveness of it, and alot of people already are complaining...

On another note although not op in the traditional sense, say.. 3 sages stun bubbling is enough to drive melee dps ineffingsane.

And on another note, why not just give everyone the ability to stun bubble themselves, on a longer cd of course... except that would be insane.. how is the current situation not more insane tho..
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