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An in-depth look at: The Mandalorian Wars

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
An in-depth look at: The Mandalorian Wars

mefit's Avatar


mefit
11.09.2012 , 05:09 PM | #81
I am going to answer a question ,
Revan was weak to control his emotions , hence why is is a Jedi Knight and not a Master . His fall started when he would not listen anymore to the Council's orders .
He acted without thinking in dragging as many Jedi into the War as possible .
He might have been able to plan out battles but he often was full of Emotion .
He acted quick and swift in all his battles and never looked back to what he did .

The War changed him , his fall was his lack of control . When he had the weapon made , he was already thinking like a Sith in many ways . Knowing he was going to kill Billions of innocents with such a quick idea and little time in thinking it out shows he was finally fallen . When the Weapon went into effect , he was gone . He never looked back , and did not care how many he dragged down with him.
Revan is not a saint
The Jedi Council could do nothing to stop him from going or they would have

Its comes very Clear they knew the War would be the Downfall of many Jedi , no matter how many ways you want to paint it.
The Republic would have be done if not for Revan and the Jedi who followed him , without a Doubt .

Again Revan was not a Jedi Master and did not hold one in high reguards , that was said in both lore and in KotoRII .
To say Revan as a Sithlord was not evil is completely wrong , he infact did many evil deeds .

Again Revan was not Ready to be a Jedi Master , they would have made him one if he was .
Revan could not be stopped , or the Jedi Council would have done so as the did instruct all the Jedi the War was off limits , but he went anyways .

Jedi are all about Morals , when you start to put them aside you are no longer following the things that keep you from being corrupted . Revan was weak to emotions period . Hes not some God or without weakness .
His whole story is about how weak he is to his emotions and how they bring him to doing extreme things .
Believe what you want , this is my take on his story as it was writen . I am not beyond my own Opinion but he was a flawed Jedi who was not ready to be a Master !
Even if he had a Jedi Master with him , he would have still did what he thought was right . I mean what is a Master going to tell him , that the Council couldn't ?

Revan in the end caused more problems that he fixed .
As the Code would say , "There is no emotion , their is peace " and he did not learn that !
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Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.09.2012 , 05:13 PM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Hmmmm, this is food for thought. At what point did Revan decide he had to take over the Republic, and make it stronger? If Malachor was a ploy to turn Jedi to the darkside, Revan must have already had been considering taking the Republic, without knowledge of the True Sith. Or maybe he did have knowledge, Malachor did have signs of the True Sith, and according to Kreia 'paved the way to Korriban' and the True Sith. But then this has been retconned slightly I believe, as apparently he learned this from Mandalore... Or maybe Kreia knew before, and told Revan? There are a hundred questions buzzing around my head! But all I see really, is a rather large plot hole...
Those are questions that I can't answer right now. Very good questions, but I don't know if I have any answers for you. Revan went to war for reasons undefined. We could say the Emperor was the cause for this, but Revan shook the Emperor's mind control so why would he continue to war with the Republic. To strengthen it? the Star Forge could do that easy. It is of my opinion that Revan was still Sith when he shook the Emperor, corrupted by the Star Forge he continued to war with the Republic.

To take control? Perhaps. To strengthen it? The Star Forge had that covered, but it was too dangerous to control. I think the Star Forge's Dark energies corrupted Revan, clouding his "original" intentions. That's my opinion as I don't have all of the info on this particular subject.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.09.2012 , 05:13 PM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
You hit that right on the proverbial Death Star reactor core shaft.
*giggle*
Quote:
She probably would have done what the Council did at first. But she probably would have gone to war. She condemned the Jedi Council for their inaction ("Apathy is Death" and all that), so it is quite plausible that she would have gone to war if it were her decision.

Either that or give old Mandalore a visit and screw with his head. Manipulative witch!
Indeed, Kreia is such a fun character. Just resparked a whole galaxy of what if Kreia moments, what if she had met Yoda? what if she had met Sidious? What is she had been in charge of the Empire? - love to see these moments.

But on a serious note. Kreia is a key factor in this whole debate. The Council (at least Atris) basically blamed her for the whole disunion in the Order. Revan apparently got his beliefs from her - make you wonder what those teachings were. I expect along the lines of 'survival of the fittest' and not wasting compassion - this was how Revan conducted himself in the war.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.09.2012 , 05:19 PM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by mefit View Post
I am going to answer a question ,
Revan was weak to control his emotions , hence why is is a Jedi Knight and not a Master . His fall started when he would not listen anymore to the Council's orders .
He acted without thinking in dragging as many Jedi into the War as possible .
He might have been able to plan out battles but he often was full of Emotion .
He acted quick and swift in all his battles and never looked back to what he did .

The War changed him , his fall was his lack of control . When he had the weapon made , he was already thinking like a Sith in many ways . Knowing he was going to kill Billions of innocents with such a quick idea and little time in thinking it out shows he was finally fallen . When the Weapon went into effect , he was gone . He never looked back , and did not care how many he dragged down with him.
Revan is not a saint
The Jedi Council could do nothing to stop him from going or they would have

Its comes very Clear they knew the War would be the Downfall of many Jedi , no matter how many ways you want to paint it.
The Republic would have be done if not for Revan and the Jedi who followed him , without a Doubt .

Again Revan was not a Jedi Master and did not hold one in high reguards , that was said in both lore and in KotoRII .
To say Revan as a Sithlord was not evil is completely wrong , he infact did many evil deeds .

Again Revan was not Ready to be a Jedi Master , they would have made him one if he was .
Revan could not be stopped , or the Jedi Council would have done so as the did instruct all the Jedi the War was off limits , but he went anyways .

Jedi are all about Morals , when you start to put them aside you are no longer following the things that keep you from being corrupted . Revan was weak to emotions period . Hes not some God or without weakness .
His whole story is about how weak he is to his emotions and how they bring him to doing extreme things .
Believe what you want , this is my take on his story as it was writen . I am not beyond my own Opinion but he was a flawed Jedi who was not ready to be a Master !
Even if he had a Jedi Master with him , he would have still did what he thought was right . I mean what is a Master going to tell him , that the Council couldn't ?

Revan in the end caused more problems that he fixed .
As the Code would say , "There is no emotion , their is peace " and he did not learn that !
Indeed, Revan is basically the Anakin Skywalker of his time. But I believe being such a loose cannon, and not a Master, the Council could exercise power of him, like the PT council could exercise power over Anakin. He should have been stopped.

I mean he was trained by Kreia for god's sake, she was not exactly a model Jedi.

mefit's Avatar


mefit
11.09.2012 , 05:20 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
*giggle*

Indeed, Kreia is such a fun character. Just resparked a whole galaxy of what if Kreia moments, what if she had met Yoda? what if she had met Sidious? What is she had been in charge of the Empire? - love to see these moments.

But on a serious note. Kreia is a key factor in this whole debate. The Council (at least Atris) basically blamed her for the whole disunion in the Order. Revan apparently got his beliefs from her - make you wonder what those teachings were. I expect along the lines of 'survival of the fittest' and not wasting compassion - this was how Revan conducted himself in the war.
That is probably the truth being there is nothing really said yet other than we know Kreia was kinda touched in the head . Possibly she put some Sith teaching into his head , and maybe that could have been his start to fall . But she did say he did not really keep to anyone Master and often rotated .
To me I think she showed him how to be a free thinker in the lines as Palpatine tried to stress to Anakin in Ep3 that a true master of the Force needed to know both sides !
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.09.2012 , 05:21 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Those are questions that I can't answer right now. Very good questions, but I don't know if I have any answers for you. Revan went to war for reasons undefined. We could say the Emperor was the cause for this, but Revan shook the Emperor's mind control so why would he continue to war with the Republic. To strengthen it? the Star Forge could do that easy. It is of my opinion that Revan was still Sith when he shook the Emperor, corrupted by the Star Forge he continued to war with the Republic.

To take control? Perhaps. To strengthen it? The Star Forge had that covered, but it was too dangerous to control. I think the Star Forge's Dark energies corrupted Revan, clouding his "original" intentions. That's my opinion as I don't have all of the info on this particular subject.
Indeed, someone really needs to elaborate on this. There as never been a source in Star Wars that gets to the bottom of Revan and get inside his head. In "Revan" he was all "I was Sith, I am Jedi!" so I'm super powerful! Weeeeee! No real answers there :P. Some needs to Q&A this guy, "KREIA, GET IN HERE!"

mefit's Avatar


mefit
11.09.2012 , 05:23 PM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Indeed, Revan is basically the Anakin Skywalker of his time. But I believe being such a loose cannon, and not a Master, the Council could exercise power of him, like the PT council could exercise power over Anakin. He should have been stopped.

I mean he was trained by Kreia for god's sake, she was not exactly a model Jedi.
True but we know nothing of Revan's skill or power , nothing is really canon . We have no clue what his Lightsaber form is or how many , or what Abilities he used as a Jedi .
We know Revan could win fights with a lightsaber
We know he could handle Lightsaber Fights with other Jedi
We know he was powerful enough to break away from being a puppet of the Emperor
But really what Abilities do we really know he can do . I mean its still speculation on what he did at the end of Foundry .
We know he was very Charismatic and could get alot of Jedi to follow him , including masters .

We know Anakin was well versed in many Forms and was very fast in combat and quick to jump in a fight .

Maybe there could have been a Obi-Wan to Revan but again nothing is stated on this . I would believe that the Council forbidding the War would have done something if they could , but that is just my Opinion.
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Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.09.2012 , 05:24 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
*giggle*

Indeed, Kreia is such a fun character. Just resparked a whole galaxy of what if Kreia moments, what if she had met Yoda? what if she had met Sidious? What is she had been in charge of the Empire? - love to see these moments.

But on a serious note. Kreia is a key factor in this whole debate. The Council (at least Atris) basically blamed her for the whole disunion in the Order. Revan apparently got his beliefs from her - make you wonder what those teachings were. I expect along the lines of 'survival of the fittest' and not wasting compassion - this was how Revan conducted himself in the war.
What if Kreia met Yoda? I don't think Yoda would really care what she has to say. Yoda isn't easily manipulated. In Dark Rendezvous, Dooku tells Yoda what the Dark Side can give him, but Yoda just said he had no need for what Dooku promised. Power? got that. Wealth? No need. Safety? Yoda was never safe. Yoda was very devout, but it would be fun to see the look on Kreia's face when he taps her with his stick.

Kreia and Sidious? The manipulative witch and the original manipulator? I think Sidious would have a thing or two to teach her. I'm sure a bridge could be formed between them, if they don't stab each other in the back first.

Anyway, off-topic I know.

I think the Council blamed Kreia for Revan's fall. Her teachings (and manipulations) really impacted Revan. If you go back far enough, you could blame Kreia for the JCW.

Side-note: I like the what-ifs with Kreia. She's a fun character that could impact a lot of scenarios, just because she manipulates everything that moves. I mean look at beast mind trick in KOTOR 2! What did that poor Boma do to her?
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.09.2012 , 05:24 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by mefit View Post
That is probably the truth being there is nothing really said yet other than we know Kreia was kinda touched in the head . Possibly she put some Sith teaching into his head , and maybe that could have been his start to fall . But she did say he did not really keep to anyone Master and often rotated .
To me I think she showed him how to be a free thinker in the lines as Palpatine tried to stress to Anakin in Ep3 that a true master of the Force needed to know both sides !
Exactly, "touched in the head" are the wrong words. But unlike Jedi, she hated adhering to one code and devoting yourself to one teaching. Jedi & Kreia simply didn't go together. To be a Jedi you have to be devoted, you have to avoid certain knowledge, you have to have faith in the Force. Kreia had none of that, and Revan not much more.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.09.2012 , 05:32 PM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
What if Kreia met Yoda? I don't think Yoda would really care what she has to say. Yoda isn't easily manipulated. In Dark Rendezvous, Dooku tells Yoda what the Dark Side can give him, but Yoda just said he had no need for what Dooku promised. Power? got that. Wealth? No need. Safety? Yoda was never safe. Yoda was very devout, but it would be fun to see the look on Kreia's face when he taps her with his stick.
All I can say is they would have a chat, a long long chat. I can almost see it now, Kreia and Yoda perched on rocks amongst the vines and marshes of Dagobah... I have a funny feeling they'd get on :P Kreia likes smart people.
Quote:
Side-note: I like the what-ifs with Kreia. She's a fun character that could impact a lot of scenarios, just because she manipulates everything that moves. I mean look at beast mind trick in KOTOR 2! What did that poor Boma do to her?
She's a human wrecker ball, a troublemaker. Every where she goes she starts questioning people and their beliefs and then they get angry and she messes them about. Hence why she got kicked out of pretty much all the clubs, Jedi, Sith, the Ebon Hawk... did she ever make any friends?