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An in-depth look at: The Mandalorian Wars

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
An in-depth look at: The Mandalorian Wars

mefit's Avatar


mefit
11.08.2012 , 08:31 PM | #21
I'd like to thankyou alot for this , it was a great read and a pleasure to see it.

Its in my opinion that the Jedi were still recovering from Exar Kun and could not afford anymore Jedi falling to the Darkside , war has a way of changing even the most good of people .

I myself believe in Fate , Jedi Knight Revan comes off alot like Anakin but without a Sidious there to make the darkside grow in him .
Revan was on his way to being a DarkJedi long before he encountered the Emperor , and even when he came back after the meeting he had all plans in betraying the Emperor and keeping the Republic for himself , be it Sithcode or Strong willed .

I personally believed PreBrainwashed BastilaShan Revan is the real Revan and this is why we seen him slipping back to the Darkside preFoundry and Foundry (My Opinion) . I believe it is his fate to be a Darklord of the Sith !

I think the Jedi were correct not to go to War but I think them not stopping Revan from going to war and taking many Jedi with him was a Mistake !

I truely believe if we go by Lore , Revan has to completely fall to the darkside and die . If he doesn't its going to mess up EU lore as Bane learned from Revan's left behind holcron which was made while he was a SithLord and I feel Revan before KotoRI was not Powerful enough to leave teachings worthy enough to birth Darth Bane who was very Powerful !

PS I am not a Revanite or whatever , I do not think Revan was all powerful or Mastered Light and Dark blah blah .
Give a Man a Mask and he'll become his true self

mefit's Avatar


mefit
11.08.2012 , 08:53 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
You are freaking hilarious! LOL!!!!!

As for your argument (I read only a fourth of it) I can see what your saying and I somewhat agree with you.

There's ZERO reason why the Jedi couldn't aid the Republic against the Mandalorians. You can argue this, but the Jedi were completely wrong to 100% percent abstain from the war. I think it was wise of them to observe and "analyze", but there is NO reason that they couldn't provide light support for the Republic. In this since, Revan was right. His immediate goal/intention was pure and justified. We all know that Revan fell, but helping the Republic was the right thing to do.

But seriously, you're hilarious.
Insulting someone is not hilarious.......

Jedi are not grown on trees , you can have the ability to be the most powerful ForceUser but without the proper training you are nothing . Exar Kun left a dent on the Jedi that lasted hundreds or years ! Exar Kun was one the most feared DarkJedi to ever live ! They feared that War would change Jedi , and it did . Revan wasn't the only Jedi to change during the War . Its to my belief that just because the Councile joined doesn't mean Revan and others would not have progressively turned to the Darkside nor do I believe it would have made a landslide win for the Republic .

The truth is Revan would have still fallen and more than likely less Jedi would have been left to stop him nor the others who also fallen .It was Revan's fate much like Anakin's to fall , it was just how they got there that could have been changed.
Give a Man a Mask and he'll become his true self

mefit's Avatar


mefit
11.08.2012 , 08:56 PM | #23
Aurbere thankyou for making a thread outside of the Disney blah blah Ep7 blah blah threads .
Give a Man a Mask and he'll become his true self

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.08.2012 , 09:16 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by mefit View Post
Aurbere thankyou for making a thread outside of the Disney blah blah Ep7 blah blah threads .
Lol! No problem. I'm getting tired of the whole Disney thing too.
Added Chapter 53 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.08.2012 , 09:25 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by mefit View Post
I'd like to thankyou alot for this , it was a great read and a pleasure to see it.

Its in my opinion that the Jedi were still recovering from Exar Kun and could not afford anymore Jedi falling to the Darkside , war has a way of changing even the most good of people .

I myself believe in Fate , Jedi Knight Revan comes off alot like Anakin but without a Sidious there to make the darkside grow in him .
Revan was on his way to being a DarkJedi long before he encountered the Emperor , and even when he came back after the meeting he had all plans in betraying the Emperor and keeping the Republic for himself , be it Sithcode or Strong willed .

I personally believed PreBrainwashed BastilaShan Revan is the real Revan and this is why we seen him slipping back to the Darkside preFoundry and Foundry (My Opinion) . I believe it is his fate to be a Darklord of the Sith !

I think the Jedi were correct not to go to War but I think them not stopping Revan from going to war and taking many Jedi with him was a Mistake !

I truely believe if we go by Lore , Revan has to completely fall to the darkside and die . If he doesn't its going to mess up EU lore as Bane learned from Revan's left behind holcron which was made while he was a SithLord and I feel Revan before KotoRI was not Powerful enough to leave teachings worthy enough to birth Darth Bane who was very Powerful !

PS I am not a Revanite or whatever , I do not think Revan was all powerful or Mastered Light and Dark blah blah .
Yes. The Jedi were still recovering from the losses against one of the most powerful Sith of all time. They really couldn't afford to go to war. If the entire Jedi Order went to war, how many more Jedi would have fallen? Revan and Malak turned a large fraction of the Jedi Order after the war. This is because they had already been corrupted by the war. Revan was falling before the war, his visit to Malachor brought him further down, his encounter with the Emperor cemented his fall. He then brought a large number of Jedi over to his side. How many Jedi could he have turned if the entire Order joined?

It is of my opinion that the Jedi should have joined the war in an advisory position. This would protect their numbers, but allow them to provide tactical aid to the Republic military and avoid Jedi falling to the Dark Side.
Added Chapter 53 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

steaktrooper's Avatar


steaktrooper
11.08.2012 , 10:14 PM | #26
In my personal opinion I feel the Jedi should mobilized early on and should have just cut off the threat at it's source. The source being Mandalore. After all, the Jedi had numerous infiltrators (shadows in the game) that could have probably killed Mandalore early on and prevented most of the bloodshed. Also the Jedi should have recognized the threat, they say they are recovering from previous wars, well if they stopped the war before it started, they would have more time to recover before the Sith returned.
Lembar Romdoro Agenros Cavteff
Sith Covenant / Jedi Covenant @ The Harbinger

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.08.2012 , 10:32 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by steaktrooper View Post
In my personal opinion I feel the Jedi should mobilized early on and should have just cut off the threat at it's source. The source being Mandalore. After all, the Jedi had numerous infiltrators (shadows in the game) that could have probably killed Mandalore early on and prevented most of the bloodshed. Also the Jedi should have recognized the threat, they say they are recovering from previous wars, well if they stopped the war before it started, they would have more time to recover before the Sith returned.
Jedi aren't assassins. And they aren't galactic enforcers. Unless these systems asked for help, the Jedi and the Republic couldn't do anything. Obviously they didn't have time to ask. Its a flawed system, but the Jedi were bound by Republic law.

Like I said, the law was flawed. Which led to the Republic trying to get as many systems into the government as possible to avoid something like this happening again.
Added Chapter 53 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Necrosaro's Avatar


Necrosaro
11.08.2012 , 11:22 PM | #28
This grew a lot while i was working :-P

Lots of very good points on both sides,

What some people are ignoring is that the Republic was losing the war against the Mandalorians. This is shown in both Kotor 1 and 2. Canderous in both games comments that the Republic was losing again and again until Revan arrived. Atton reinforces this showing that Republic moral was shattered, their soldiers had little hope and were constantly retreating from a force that was only a fraction of theirs. Every victory brought the Mandalorians more slaves and more resources and higher moral while the opposite was happening to the Republic.

If Revan hadn't gone to war and listened to the Council what would have happened? What would they have saved? Lets say that the Outer Rim fell, and the Mandalorians were sacking the Mid Rim? Would the Jedi have intervened then? Why then? Would they know then about the Sith Empire? How would they find out about it?

Were they waiting for a vision to explain the entire backstory? Would they have intervened when the Mandalorians were invading the Core Worlds? We don't know exactly what would have caused the Jedi to start fighting back.

Like the dialog between the Exile and Atris at Telos shows us (at least from Meetra's point of view) the Jedi watched millions, perhaps billions die and did nothing. Why do you think it was so easy for Revan to get people to turn against the Jedi? People saw the Jedi as cruel uncaring people who were suppose to be their saviors and instead seemed to hide inside their temples as the Mandalorians tore the Republic apart.

As it was mentioned before, one of Kotor 2's prime angles was that the Council was wrong, Revan knew that the Republic couldn't defeat the Sith as they were, they had to change, and he had to do what he did. After all, as Kreia said. Did Revan truly fall, or did he stay true to himself no matter what mantle he wore? Revan saved the Republic with his actions, he just sacrificed billions of lives to make sure that it survived. Most of us cannot accept the idea that billions must die to save quadrillions.

Just my opinion on the matter, could be wrong but that is how I see it.

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
11.08.2012 , 11:34 PM | #29
In the end, following the Mandalorian Wars, Revan only saved the Republic from his own mess. He wasn't a good guy, he was essentially like Bengel Morr. Kreia's theory about Revan never falling and taking on the Mantle of the Dark Lord as a sacrifice is nonsense. The Jedi Order didn't need to to turn to the darkside to defeat the Sith Emperor or the Mandalorians.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.08.2012 , 11:46 PM | #30
When I made this thread, I was concerned over some opinions. This thread was primarily meant to provide an overview of the Mandalorian Wars and to clear up some misconceptions. Specifically the misconception involving the Jedi Council and their so-called "cowardice". I can see why many believe the Jedi were cowards, but some don't look at ALL of the circumstances surrounding the war. We all have our opinions and this thread was meant to shine some light on the Jedi Council's decisions.

I can neither condone nor condemn the Jedi for their decision.
Added Chapter 53 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus