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MMO-PvP and You: A Guide to Growth

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
MMO-PvP and You: A Guide to Growth

MelodicSixNine's Avatar


MelodicSixNine
11.07.2012 , 11:45 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Ycoga View Post
Yes, because it is possible to both play MMO's and succeed in life! You don't have to follow Doomsday's mold!
.
I didn't say it wasn't, but trying to pull out life knowledge while being on mmo forums about being successful in life is pretty ironic. Don't you think?
Who's the bigger no life: nolifer or the person who takes time to point it out? Anyway I will end my part of OT here.

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
11.07.2012 , 12:24 PM | #22
While I love to be competitive...


WOW!

This reminds me of something the Dalai Lama would write if he was a geek. (Don't take "geek" as a bad thing... We're all geeks in my opinion.)

Little hard core for my taste... after all. It IS just a game and it's meant to be fun. I feel as if this was supposed to change my gaming life. Remember folks... competitiveness is good, but there is a fine line to where it stops becoming fun. Don't cross that line... this game will not be here in 5 years, real life will still exist.

It's this kind of mentality that keeps me from real competitive game play. Tekken, Planetside, Socom, Madden, COD... just for other examples. I have played and still play most of these with some of the top players in the country... tournament winners. I have never entered a tournament for any of them and never will even though I could compete at that level. Why? Because it's a game and it's meant to be entertainment.... not a job. The only reason I take it seriously at all is because it's my way of being competitive while being lazy. As an ex athlete (nothing special, HS/College).. even on those levels there is a line where it stops being fun.... don't cross that line. Be competitive... but enjoy the competition.

I kinda went on a rant here but it's insane to me to see people be THIS serious about a video game. All just my opinion though I suppose.

This pretty much sums it up...

Quote: Originally Posted by TheronFett View Post
OP, I must applaud your efforts for constructing this thread. At the same time, I have to giggle behind your back and poke fun at you.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
11.07.2012 , 12:35 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
While I love to be competitive...


WOW!

This reminds me of something the Dalai Lama would write if he was a geek. (Don't take "geek" as a bad thing... We're all geeks in my opinion.)

Little hard core for my taste... after all. It IS just a game and it's meant to be fun. I feel as if this was supposed to change my gaming life. Remember folks... competitiveness is good, but there is a fine line to where it stops becoming fun. Don't cross that line... this game will not be here in 5 years, real life will still exist.

It's this kind of mentality that keeps me from real competitive game play. Tekken, Planetside, Socom, Madden, COD... just for other examples. I have played and still play most of these with some of the top players in the country... tournament winners. I have never entered a tournament for any of them and never will even though I could compete at that level. Why? Because it's a game and it's meant to be entertainment.... not a job. The only reason I take it seriously at all is because it's my way of being competitive while being lazy. As an ex athlete (nothing special, HS/College).. even on those levels there is a line where it stops being fun.... don't cross that line. Be competitive... but enjoy the competition.

I kinda went on a rant here but it's insane to me to see people be THIS serious about a video game. All just my opinion though I suppose.

This pretty much sums it up...
This article (I dunno if you actually read what this was derived from) actually fits your mentality extremely well. The essential point, is that everything in the game is fair to be used. Thus people complaining about premades in regular warzones should ask themselves why they aren't in one, not complain about the fact that they are there. It is not essential to follow everything written here if your only intention is to have fun, but then you can't complain when people do what you consider "cheap". I never use to use exotech stims, because I felt they were "cheap", but that went out the window pretty fast when I noticed that EVERYONE has one on in warzones.

The overall theme is basically that you should use all of the avenues available to you if you wish to be the best and be competitive within the confines of the game. If you want to have casual fun (which I know you certainly do not), then it is important to understand that players will use the tools available to them to beat you and you only have yourself to blame if you don't use the same options. Not that this means there cannot be discussion. Things like the damage of smash or sorc bubble stun can still be changed if it makes the game more balanced and enjoyable, but if you aren't taking advantage of them at this time, you have no one to blame but yourself.
I have opinions and stuff

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
11.07.2012 , 12:43 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
This article (I dunno if you actually read what this was derived from) actually fits your mentality extremely well. The essential point, is that everything in the game is fair to be used. Thus people complaining about premades in regular warzones should ask themselves why they aren't in one, not complain about the fact that they are there. It is not essential to follow everything written here if your only intention is to have fun, but then you can't complain when people do what you consider "cheap". I never use to use exotech stims, because I felt they were "cheap", but that went out the window pretty fast when I noticed that EVERYONE has one on in warzones.

The overall theme is basically that you should use all of the avenues available to you if you wish to be the best and be competitive within the confines of the game. If you want to have casual fun (which I know you certainly do not), then it is important to understand that players will use the tools available to them to beat you and you only have yourself to blame if you don't use the same options. Not that this means there cannot be discussion. Things like the damage of smash or sorc bubble stun can still be changed if it makes the game more balanced and enjoyable, but if you aren't taking advantage of them at this time, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Sounds about the same as my mentality.... but I'm not gonna lie. I did only skim over it and it was just too... Dalai Lama'ish. It just sounded like something a preacher would say in nerd church. The over all feeling was just too serious for my taste....


All of that aside... if THAT was the message. I absolutely agree.... but was all of that necessary to get the point across?

Theodulus's Avatar


Theodulus
11.07.2012 , 12:58 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Sirlin
"The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing."
The above quote is an excerpt from a very prominent Street Fighter Champion, Sirlin. His website and book "Playing to Win can be found in the link.

I have chosen to open this topic with a quote and reference to him, because it is his writings that have so profoundly impacted my life as a gamer. That, and the wonderful person who stole my heart, while kicking my *** at just about every game we play.
Now that is a pretty distasteful choice of quote for a game with a set of rules. I know you say exploiting is bad later on but that quote is basically telling me to install swtor on my work machine and then start to reverse engineer the communication protocol, the game client and then exploit the hell out of the game without getting caught. And yes my work description involves among many things to reverse engineer software. I could simply tell everyone that aren't exploiting the game to learn to reverse engineer and use that knowledge to exploit the game if they QQ.

Joesixxpack's Avatar


Joesixxpack
11.07.2012 , 01:20 PM | #26
Interesting, thanks for putting this together OP. There're plenty of info. sources on tactics, gear, etc., but gaming philosophies like these are rare indeed. I didn't see anything worth debating about in the content, it makes sense.

Hopefully not too many people take it to heart though. Emotional immaturity and irrational decisions are what lead to their slipups, and help my fun and scores
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j-cart's Avatar


j-cart
11.07.2012 , 01:44 PM | #27
Well written OP. More than likely what you wrote won't resonate with everyone here, but those that understand it, will be at a different level of play.


Quote:
"You play to win the game" -Herm Edwards

Of course in video games griefing people is a sport in its own, but when something is on the line, I'll be there with only one goal in mind
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Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.07.2012 , 03:03 PM | #28
@Aluvi: Thank you. I feel obligated to credit Sirlin's writings again, as it is his words more than mine (which in some ways come from his) that will change and help people grow.

@Ycoga: I don't see how exceling in real life and exceling in a game are conflicts of interest, provided you don't take exceling in a game to mean "Play every spare hour you can." If that what you took from the writings, what suggestions would you make for me to properly distinguish the two?

@Assassin: Sadly it is not words of intraspection that turn the masses, but if even one person takes the transformation I did, then I feel wasting a few hours of spare time (written mostly between matches or playing Tera with the earlier mentioned ***-kicker) worth it.

@Theronfett: Please feel free to giggle. =P Sometimes I think I'm silly too when I'm daydreaming arguments and game features on the bus or on a break at work.

@L-Randle: Thank you, and that's a nice quote. If I don't get to it first, maybe you can let me know who it's from. Might need to added it to my list of quotes!

@Lintman: Is there a way you think I can make that more clear? I've already adjusted some of it, but even in your example one needs to know the true enemy. As my opponent, you can flag me for interference, push me, kill me, slow me down, and in general be a hellion, but those actions are legitimate moves and strategies. That doesn't make you my "True Enemy" though, and as long as I don't take it personally and understand you are blocking me for PvP purposes, then I won't become frustrated or angry at you. Likewise, if I did the same to you, I believe you would not take it personally. If we were able to talk at the end of the match, we may even trade compliments and playful jabs at the other. In game we are opponents, in life we are not Enemies.

@UGLYMJR: No offense taken, I've grown to like being a geek. Most of my friends and loved ones are too. I'm glad Jadescythe was able to perhaps better sum up/explain the key points in this thread. I am thinking of expanding "Where is the Line?" to explain that there must be a disconnect from yourself and the game. As with "Know the True Enemy" we should either a) Use all tools available within the rules of the game, b) know others will use them, even if we choose to abstain, and c) never allow the game actions to become personal. <.< perhaps I can find a good way to say "Play to win, but have fun whether you win or lose."

@Theodulus: Within that quote, is specifies "The Game knows no rules of Honor" not that "The game knows no rules." I'll consider switching the quotes around, but I find it is difficult to say all things in one quote. We must certianly understand the difference between legal and illegal moves, which is where "Where is the Line?" expresses that. It may seem like a bit of an Oxymoron, but we should all have a sense of "Honesty," even if our fights are not held by rules of "Honor."

@Joesixxpack: Thank you. I felt game mechanics were fairly covered by better people than myself, but I'd seen few posts on the mentality of gaming, and I find a poor, or "scrub" mentality aflicts too many good players.

@cart; Thanks, and nice quote. I'm not gonna even touch griefing... there's a reason I don't play on Open World PvP servers.

Guide will be updated and refined as I have time. in the mean time, thanks all!

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
11.07.2012 , 03:13 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post

@L-Randle: Thank you, and that's a nice quote. If I don't get to it first, maybe you can let me know who it's from. Might need to added it to my list of quotes!
!
PADME!!!! When she talking to Anakin about Obi-Wan's "gear gap". Attack of the Clones....


<------- I <3 Natalie Portman...
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UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
11.07.2012 , 03:35 PM | #30
Quote:
@UGLYMJR: No offense taken, I've grown to like being a geek. Most of my friends and loved ones are too. I'm glad Jadescythe was able to perhaps better sum up/explain the key points in this thread. I am thinking of expanding "Where is the Line?" to explain that there must be a disconnect from yourself and the game. As with "Know the True Enemy" we should either a) Use all tools available within the rules of the game, b) know others will use them, even if we choose to abstain, and c) never allow the game actions to become personal. <.< perhaps I can find a good way to say "Play to win, but have fun whether you win or lose."
Yeah... I use it pretty loosely but don't want anyone to take it the wrong way. When friends call me to go out and I would rather stay home and play SWTOR I say "Nah.... geeking it"... it's just a phrase I coined.

But I can agree with the concept... it just came off a little serious in the context. I don't even use cheat codes on single player games but you better believe that I will use every advantage in any game short of hacking or mods. People can call it camping... griefing... trolling... whatever.... I call it winning.

But yeah... that last line about sums up how I see it. If you're winning, but taking it so seriously that you're not having fun... what's the point?

Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post


<------- I <3 Natalie Portman...

Easily in my top 5.... so damn hot.