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Romance Double-Standard


Laris_Rai's Avatar


Laris_Rai
11.26.2012 , 02:37 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
I did, he had a girlfriend but then broke up with her in the end.
Uh, no. There's more going on in both the past and the present on that. You might want to YouTube his character arc.
"Buy the ticket, take the ride." - Hunter S. Thompson

lanawinst's Avatar


lanawinst
05.12.2013 , 07:48 AM | #62
With all the talk surrounding the same-sex romances, I thought it was time to revive this old thread. Why? Well, because of the fact that same-sex romances happened, and that is a really good thing. And it also gives me hope that maybe they will do something about the disparities between male and female romances.

Here are the actual number of romances in the game (Makeb not included):
Jedi Knight: male 3 - female 1
Jedi Consular: male 2 - female 2
Smuggler: male 9 - female 6
Trooper: male 3 - female 1 (and a half, maybe)

Sith Warrior: male 7 - female 3
Sith Inquisitor: male 4 - female 3
Bounty Hunter: male 4 - female 3
Imperial agent: male 9 - female 6

Detailed list hidden for spoilers:
Spoiler


The results are there and the male wins with a whooping 41 (24 for the Empire and 17 for the Republic) while the female only get 25.5 (15 for the Empire and 10.5 for the Republic). Almost half less content...
Worse, the full romances are also totally unfairly allocated with 11 for the males and only 8 for the females.


Detailed list hidden for spoilers:
Spoiler


NB: Since I didn't go through all the options myself, this is the result of the info I gathered on various sources so if I forgot something or got something wrong, lemme know.

To the ones who don't care about romances, good for you. I'm not debating about whether I like romances or not, or if this game should have romances or not. Every one has their own tastes regarding it and this is not the debate here. This game has various content and everyone has different opinions regarding it (for ex: some love PVP others don't). One of them is romances. So, the question here is: Why does my game has less content if I play as a girl?

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
05.12.2013 , 07:58 AM | #63
The game was likely written by straight men for straight men and the straight women's romances were added either as an after-thought or with deliberate care to be "less", because of a couple of reasons (confused attitudes to women's sexuality in the media (that women, though assumed to be interested in romance are not active participants in their relationships or are more discerning/select or steady in their choices, not to mention the backlash of presenting a female character with the same amount of choices a male character has would label her a "****" and that women with an attitude of wanting what is perceived to be a "masculine" ideal towards sexual practices is a bad thing), the idea that a straight guy playing a woman might be turned off by the slightly "gay" aspect of romancing a male companion, etc.) OR there's the more disturbing idea that Bioware's writers just flat-out didn't realise that the imbalance exists. They certainly haven't acknowledged it post-launch.

Besides, even with the introduction of SGRA in this game, [Flirt]s and Romance options for the Straight Male Character will continue to outweigh options for all other genders and sexualities, whether combined or separate.

I'd suggest you PM your information to Ms. Green or Ms. Woods or perhaps even tweet the link of this post to Mr. Hood and try to drag him into a dialogue on the subject, if you can.

Ellyria's Avatar


Ellyria
05.12.2013 , 09:09 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
The game was likely written by straight men for straight men and the straight women's romances were added either as an after-thought or with deliberate care to be "less"
I remember Jennifer Hepler saying that Corso was written to be the sidekick to the male Smuggler and she had to try several different things to make him "fit" as a romance option for female Smugglers. I'm not sure about any others, but it wouldn't surprise me if all the classes were written with male protagonists in mind.

Source

Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Besides, even with the introduction of SGRA in this game, [Flirt]s and Romance options for the Straight Male Character will continue to outweigh options for all other genders and sexualities, whether combined or separate.
I'm a straight female, but I was mildly annoyed to find out (spoilers for Makeb):

Spoiler
The Ebon Hawk ~ The Highwind Legacy The Shadowlands ~ The Highwind Legacy
Irritated Statement: Master, if you insist on echoing everything I say, this already tedious conversation is in danger of becoming even longer.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
05.12.2013 , 09:17 AM | #65
Corso as a "fit" for female Smuggler romance? Has she met the character she wrote? He's a patronising, borderline misogynist, anti-free-expression-of-sexuality bell-end that I wouldn't mind marooning on an Imperial controlled mining moon.

Edit: Found the quote you're referring to:
Quote:
(Originally by Jennifer Helper)

For what it's worth, Corso Riggs was originally designed as the "little brother" character for the Male Smuggler. He was so very clearly the beta male that it was very difficult for me to make him into a credible romance for as strong a woman as the female smuggler. After several failed attempts, the over-the-top romantic was the only real way to make him work as both a in-the-player's-shadow sidekick for the male player and a non-contemptible romance for the female. The romance was definitely written well after all of his non-romance plot dialogue, and after all the planentary romances as well. We write a lot of characters at Bioware; trying not repeat the same ones from game to game will always mean that different ones will work better for different people, and sometimes different games will work better for different people as a result.
(Emphasis mine) Lol wut?

And, with Lemda, to me her bisexuality was a continuation of the idea of the women in this game being there (or being women) for the sole entertainment of men. As if to say: if she can't be romanced or flirted with, you not just make her a man?

I don't want to have no bisexual characters in the game - that goes against everything I've been arguing for in the SGRA threads - but to have the only bisexual character in this game be female just smacks of heterosexual-male privilege/ Likewise, having Lord Cytharat as the only gay character (male or female) in the game and having him be on the faction known for being evil, corrupt and morally questionable and without a reflection in the Republic, regardless of his personality and his morality, implies distasteful things about Bioware's attitudes to gay men and women and homosexuality itself. But that's getting off topic. We're discussing the women in this game, not the men.

And I told you to tweet Mr. Hood, but I went ahead and tweeted to him on the subject as well :x May have been a bit passive-aggressive.

SW_display_name's Avatar


SW_display_name
05.12.2013 , 04:09 PM | #66
I loathe this, and yes I am somewhat offended by it. The number of [Flirt] options for most of my female characters is incredibly small and usually limited to using or manipulating people.

It's like the writers are threatened or confused by modern female sexuality.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
05.12.2013 , 04:42 PM | #67
Remember, when she says "non-contemptible" she really means, she found him to be non-contemptible. Just like you bash the male writers for writing as themselves, she wrote it as herself. There also seems to be plenty of both genders who love Corso (I'm not one of them) as he is with the female smuggler.

That said, with the one alien females can romance, I'm finding him quite enjoyable! Came off harsh, where I was thinking "*** him?!" but he's grown on me Corso...gaaaah...his attitude is worse than the Quinn betrayal
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
05.12.2013 , 05:37 PM | #68
Male Consular only gets one romance option: Nadia. Jedi aren't really supposed to be off having all kinds of romantic relationships, though.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
05.12.2013 , 07:33 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
Male Consular only gets one romance option: Nadia. Jedi aren't really supposed to be off having all kinds of romantic relationships, though.
To go with this thought though, it's not just relationships that have this problem. While it feels limited to only two Advance Classes, I never feel my Shadow feels like a Shadow or my Assassin like an Assassin. Both Classes felt roped into the Sage/Sorc advance class with the storyline.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Raynezazki's Avatar


Raynezazki
05.13.2013 , 09:03 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
To go with this thought though, it's not just relationships that have this problem. While it feels limited to only two Advance Classes, I never feel my Shadow feels like a Shadow or my Assassin like an Assassin. Both Classes felt roped into the Sage/Sorc advance class with the storyline.
Really? I though the Consular storyline worked more with a sage (Healing and whatnot) and the Inquisitor with an assassin (using brute force most of the time).