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Backstab / Acid Blade


Chiltonium's Avatar


Chiltonium
11.04.2012 , 06:03 AM | #1
I took an 8 month break for ToR, having gotten bored with the lack of content. Had a level 50 operative I raided with often, had full columni, some rakata, enjoyed him very much.

Now that I am back....er *** did they do to backstab? Didnt it used to be an 8 second cooldown? how do they justify a 4 second increase? O_o

the damage doesnt seem any higher, and this also limits how often I can apply acid blade, a 6 second dot with 2x the cooldown now. Is there some hidden reasoning behind this? Does it scale better with power cause of the CD now? Does jesus pop out of the blade and smite them? Im really scratching my head here, before I could time everything just right for maximum energy management and only have to use my rifle shot maybe every 4 or 5 rotations, pure stabbing fun.

Now I find myself staring at cooldowns and having to pop overload shots. I dont mind that, I always wanted more use out of overload shot, but they didnt seem to up its damage, so its still crap. Whats goin on!?
Syasentas - 55 Operative
Syadestis - 55 Powertech
Syaseheth - 55 Assassin
SyasehethS - 55 Juggernaut (yea, same name with an s, so what, wanna fight about it?)

warultima's Avatar


warultima
11.04.2012 , 03:49 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Chiltonium View Post
I took an 8 month break for ToR, having gotten bored with the lack of content. Had a level 50 operative I raided with often, had full columni, some rakata, enjoyed him very much.

Now that I am back....er *** did they do to backstab? Didnt it used to be an 8 second cooldown? how do they justify a 4 second increase? O_o

the damage doesnt seem any higher, and this also limits how often I can apply acid blade, a 6 second dot with 2x the cooldown now. Is there some hidden reasoning behind this? Does it scale better with power cause of the CD now? Does jesus pop out of the blade and smite them? Im really scratching my head here, before I could time everything just right for maximum energy management and only have to use my rifle shot maybe every 4 or 5 rotations, pure stabbing fun.

Now I find myself staring at cooldowns and having to pop overload shots. I dont mind that, I always wanted more use out of overload shot, but they didnt seem to up its damage, so its still crap. Whats goin on!?
They did several sweeping nerfs to operatives.

Damage on Hidden Strike and Backstab reduced by 10%.
Hidden Strike can no longer auto crit.
Jarring Strike (the knockdown from hidden strike) knockdown duration nerfed by 50% from 3 second to 1.5 second.
Backstab cooldown increased to 12 seconds.
Acid Blade's armor penetration nerfed from 50% to 30%.

There's more nerfs these are just on top of my head I can think of.
| Lv50 Madness Sorc | Lv50 Annihilation Marauder |
| Lv50 Pyrotech Power Tech | Lv50 Medicine Operative |
| Lv50 Sharpshooter Gunslinger | Lv 26 Darkness Assassin |

Zunayson's Avatar


Zunayson
11.04.2012 , 08:09 PM | #3
Backstab doing 10% more damage, 4% with talents, energy cost from 0 to 5 (talents),

Laceration does 10% less damage, 4% regained from talents, energy cost reduced from 15 to 10 (buff imo)

Hidden Strike now has a 7.5 sec cd (Make it 6 to match stealth! once I stealthed right after I one hitted someone and i had to wait another gcd to use hidden strike again! ).

Shiv used to be 5% on the Razor Edge talent per point is now 4%.

Cloaking Screen now has a base 2 min cd, the cd reduction is now 30 seconds, sneak now has a 45 second cd, dodging no longer restores energy iirc, leaving stealth finishes the cd on sneak AND sneak out of stealth gives a 50% movement speed.

All of the above only when talented^
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
Bioware couldn't balance a sheet of plywood if it were laying [sic] on the ground.
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Make sure you take 3/3 in the "knowing how to play" box

Chiltonium's Avatar


Chiltonium
11.05.2012 , 01:38 PM | #4
yea, I just rerolled as an assassin, Im really dissapointed. I was here for the jarring strike nerf, and I didnt mind it, 3 sec was too long, I could kill people before they stood up, it wasnt even fun. Armor pen was a bit high too, I thought after that nerf we were in a good place

The backstab nerf killed me, I cant even enjoy the op with the stupid CDs now. 12 seconds to reapply acid blade and my major burst ability vs assasins maul with not only higher damage, no cooldown, but the ability to proc and make it even MORE damage and cost almost nothing. On top of spammable skill on par with lacerates damage, and shock on par with shiv.
Syasentas - 55 Operative
Syadestis - 55 Powertech
Syaseheth - 55 Assassin
SyasehethS - 55 Juggernaut (yea, same name with an s, so what, wanna fight about it?)

Kaos_KidSWTOR's Avatar


Kaos_KidSWTOR
11.05.2012 , 01:50 PM | #5
Personaly im going with a hybrid Leth/Conceal ive crunched some numbers and figured out something that may shed some light on why conceal has lower DPS than leth. Ok so Acid Blade vs Corrosive Grenade, Acid Blade has 30% armor penetration big deal... its poison is shorter than Corrosive and it deals less damage thats why Acid is useless compared to Corrosive and if you have over 100% accuracy (which is a big thing for any DPS to have) then armor penetration is already there somewhat. with going hybrid Leth/Conceal my rotation is Hidden, Shiv, Poison Dart, Corrosive, Cull, Shiv, Lace hoping to god for a Collateral, if collateral then lace till no collateral if no collateral skip to backstab, backstab, Overload, Overload then wash rince(without the Hidden, the overlaods are there to just fill in some dps from Hidden).

Thats my 2 cents ill post my build also. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#40...dzRZGMbkrMhz.2

Reason for the 2 points in Medicine, well 3% extra cunning cant hurt and the less energy use on Corrosive is nice since it eats up alot of energy

Chiltonium's Avatar


Chiltonium
11.05.2012 , 09:54 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaos_KidSWTOR View Post
Personaly im going with a hybrid Leth/Conceal ive crunched some numbers and figured out something that may shed some light on why conceal has lower DPS than leth. Ok so Acid Blade vs Corrosive Grenade, Acid Blade has 30% armor penetration big deal... its poison is shorter than Corrosive and it deals less damage thats why Acid is useless compared to Corrosive and if you have over 100% accuracy (which is a big thing for any DPS to have) then armor penetration is already there somewhat. with going hybrid Leth/Conceal my rotation is Hidden, Shiv, Poison Dart, Corrosive, Cull, Shiv, Lace hoping to god for a Collateral, if collateral then lace till no collateral if no collateral skip to backstab, backstab, Overload, Overload then wash rince(without the Hidden, the overlaods are there to just fill in some dps from Hidden).

Thats my 2 cents ill post my build also. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#40...dzRZGMbkrMhz.2

Reason for the 2 points in Medicine, well 3% extra cunning cant hurt and the less energy use on Corrosive is nice since it eats up alot of energy
er, grenade doesnt do anywhere NEAR acid blade damage. The grenade is on a 20 sec CD and does its damager over -20- seconds. Yes the damage number is higher, but acid blade does its damage in -6-. And you can reapply it in 12, soon as its up if you do from hidden strike, then from backstab. Grenade is NOT going to get you more damage than acid blade, not even close. And 30% armor pen is FAR from "meh" its a huuuuuuge difference.

You didnt get the 30% extra crit damage on major hitting abilities (backstab, acid blade, hidden strike). Didnt get extra bstab damage, didnt get strim boost + laceration / collatoral strike damage. That build is going to do far far far less than any full concealment build or full lethality build.

The points in medicine should both be in cunning, heck you need 3 in it for any build really. Was this a troll post? >.> That build is all around terrible, sorry >_<
Syasentas - 55 Operative
Syadestis - 55 Powertech
Syaseheth - 55 Assassin
SyasehethS - 55 Juggernaut (yea, same name with an s, so what, wanna fight about it?)

warultima's Avatar


warultima
11.05.2012 , 10:31 PM | #7
The only hybrid I can tolerate is the so called "Laceration Medic" which trade in damage for surgical probe lolspam + kolto probe for the super survivalibity. And use the TA from your KP procs and spam Laceration.

All other hybrid specs I've seem are pretty bad.
IMO the loss of Acid Blade is HUGE (it does good damage over a short dot, its oGCD, as well as the 30% ArPen).
If you are going to opt out on all the damage you get from concealment (which isnt really that impressive to begin with compare to Warriors/Sins/PTs) you better make sure you abuse your only viable tree, Medicine, and get the super survivability that tree provides.
| Lv50 Madness Sorc | Lv50 Annihilation Marauder |
| Lv50 Pyrotech Power Tech | Lv50 Medicine Operative |
| Lv50 Sharpshooter Gunslinger | Lv 26 Darkness Assassin |

Kaos_KidSWTOR's Avatar


Kaos_KidSWTOR
11.06.2012 , 08:47 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Chiltonium View Post
er, grenade doesnt do anywhere NEAR acid blade damage. The grenade is on a 20 sec CD and does its damager over -20- seconds. Yes the damage number is higher, but acid blade does its damage in -6-. And you can reapply it in 12, soon as its up if you do from hidden strike, then from backstab. Grenade is NOT going to get you more damage than acid blade, not even close. And 30% armor pen is FAR from "meh" its a huuuuuuge difference.

You didnt get the 30% extra crit damage on major hitting abilities (backstab, acid blade, hidden strike). Didnt get extra bstab damage, didnt get strim boost + laceration / collatoral strike damage. That build is going to do far far far less than any full concealment build or full lethality build.

The points in medicine should both be in cunning, heck you need 3 in it for any build really. Was this a troll post? >.> That build is all around terrible, sorry >_<
I dont know what crack your smoking. Shure i skipped those abilitys in the Conceal tree but it was for attaing Cull. which is like Laceration only it deals extra damage per DOT (im not shure if acid blade from another Op counts since it is an "agent poison") So if i still have 2 DOT's with this build (shure i would have 3 with full leth) and i can have better coordination between my 2 grenades so i pop them right after the other. and my energy will practicly NEVER run dry. (the 10 energy from using Stim Boost, the 5 energy from rakata set bonus, and the 2 energy from a DOT critting and backstab only using 5 energy[though in pvp backstab is a rare occourence because people run away from Op's]) this build has more in mind about the abilitys that take advantage of DOT's then the DOT's themselves.

Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
11.06.2012 , 09:58 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Chiltonium View Post
I took an 8 month break for ToR, having gotten bored with the lack of content. Had a level 50 operative I raided with often, had full columni, some rakata, enjoyed him very much.

Now that I am back....er *** did they do to backstab? Didnt it used to be an 8 second cooldown? how do they justify a 4 second increase? O_o

the damage doesnt seem any higher, and this also limits how often I can apply acid blade, a 6 second dot with 2x the cooldown now. Is there some hidden reasoning behind this? Does it scale better with power cause of the CD now? Does jesus pop out of the blade and smite them? Im really scratching my head here, before I could time everything just right for maximum energy management and only have to use my rifle shot maybe every 4 or 5 rotations, pure stabbing fun.

Now I find myself staring at cooldowns and having to pop overload shots. I dont mind that, I always wanted more use out of overload shot, but they didnt seem to up its damage, so its still crap. Whats goin on!?
Concealments got nerf'd 6 times in a row... 3 times in your absence.

BS now has a 12 second CD (DPS nerf)

Lacerate 10% damage nerf

Shiv damage nerf'd.

Lacerate proc doesn't proc as frequently despite what the description says

Don't listen to anyone about lacerate it is the farthest thing from a buff anyone with a pre-school education in math could figure out.

Our crit chance is broken and doesn't work as our stats implicate.

Toolbar glitch from Month 1 is back - Failed skills triggering global CD

Auto-crit on HS nerf'd

Stealth efficasy nerf'd - meaning much much easier to see stealth classes in stealth.

PVP relics nerf'd (No more "On Use" relics")

Biochem adrenals (can't be used in PVP anymore)

Concealments/scrappers are THE only class in the game who have to grind for wz coms and ranked wz comes at 3 times the quantity compared to ALL other classes combined.

Hybrid builds are a *********** joke in PVP and anyone who tells you otherwise is a *********** idiot.

Oh but they gave us a "**** you vote of confidence" with a 6 second 50% speed increase with sneak while out of stealth. I guess that's something.

Concealments are THE lowest DPS err Healer class in the game and thus you can kiss off raiding all together noone will take you unless you go heal spec.

Bioware continues to boost all other classes in the game and saying **** You to Concealments/Scrappers.

Other than that you haven't missed much else. Same **** different month.

Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
11.06.2012 , 10:01 AM | #10
To the OP: Despite what my previous post says, I found a work-around for the nerf's that I'd be willing to share with you if any of my advice is of use let me know if you need it in a PM.