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Want to hear suggestion of TOR fanfic

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Community Content > Fan Fiction
Want to hear suggestion of TOR fanfic

Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
11.05.2012 , 03:35 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Yeah I saw the preview, Satele said he was the dad but she could be lying to hide Malgus.
Lying about the father is out of character for Satele. You may as well have her lie about the child being hers. She hides her pregnancy and birth from the Order entirely. Your Theron would not know who his real parents are, kind of like Luke Skywalker.

Your story is very problematic, especially for me. I know fanfics are just that, fictional works by fans, and that you can do pretty much anything you want. But as I said earlier, I do my best to avoid taking liberties, especially huge ones, with the lore and canon. That alone is causing me problems in trying to figure out how your plot would work and make sense.

I guess if you don't care about canon at all then it is possible to make this into a good read. But Satele making a secret deal to have Malgus' child for the sake of bringing down the Empire from within is just so far out there. I just don't see her selling her soul to the devil nor do I see him making a deal with a Jedi. It is so out of character for them. Malgus would rather stab Shan in the back, which is exactly what he would do right after she gives birth.

Here's a thought. What if, instead of Theron being the creation of Satele and Malgus, you go ahead with your kidnapping of Satele? She is lured into a trap thinking her son, or mybe her grandchild, was captured and she goes to rescue them. The trap is sprung, she is taken prisoner and a ransom is made to Theron. His Force sensitive child for his mother's life. Malgus gets the kid, does his thing yet he and Satele still make the deal you proposed, just that there is no mating between them?

I know, I am pitching ideas to you and you are probably going to tell me to piss off, lol. Just trying to help. I love to write my own fanfics and like to help others when i can.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
11.05.2012 , 04:03 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilikaa View Post
Lying about the father is out of character for Satele. You may as well have her lie about the child being hers. She hides her pregnancy and birth from the Order entirely. Your Theron would not know who his real parents are, kind of like Luke Skywalker.

Your story is very problematic, especially for me. I know fanfics are just that, fictional works by fans, and that you can do pretty much anything you want. But as I said earlier, I do my best to avoid taking liberties, especially huge ones, with the lore and canon. That alone is causing me problems in trying to figure out how your plot would work and make sense.

I guess if you don't care about canon at all then it is possible to make this into a good read. But Satele making a secret deal to have Malgus' child for the sake of bringing down the Empire from within is just so far out there. I just don't see her selling her soul to the devil nor do I see him making a deal with a Jedi. It is so out of character for them. Malgus would rather stab Shan in the back, which is exactly what he would do right after she gives birth.

Here's a thought. What if, instead of Theron being the creation of Satele and Malgus, you go ahead with your kidnapping of Satele? She is lured into a trap thinking her son, or mybe her grandchild, was captured and she goes to rescue them. The trap is sprung, she is taken prisoner and a ransom is made to Theron. His Force sensitive child for his mother's life. Malgus gets the kid, does his thing yet he and Satele still make the deal you proposed, just that there is no mating between them?

I know, I am pitching ideas to you and you are probably going to tell me to piss off, lol. Just trying to help. I love to write my own fanfics and like to help others when i can.
I care about the canon a lot, we are just having different opinion upon characters' persona I guess.

As imperial player, I don't understand where did the "good Jedi" concept come from, maybe the republic story only showed the corruption of the senate but not the Jedi itself? From Imperial quest I saw what horrible thing did the Jedi do and that's not done just by individual, at least quite a few masters were involved, the battlemaster was even behind all the framed crimes and ambushes of the BH character, sure Satele Shan was not directly involved but as the head of the jedi order I think she should also be responsible for those. That's why I thought Satele is overall on the good side, but that does not mean she would totally say "NO" to dirty or even cruel plans.

I'm not sure did you play through those quests, I will love to hear your opinion on these things.

Let Darth Nox capture her would be better than Malgus since she(I use a female twilik) was cunning and young.

Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
11.05.2012 , 05:14 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
I care about the canon a lot, we are just having different opinion upon characters' persona I guess.

As imperial player, I don't understand where did the "good Jedi" concept come from, maybe the republic story only showed the corruption of the senate but not the Jedi itself? From Imperial quest I saw what horrible thing did the Jedi do and that's not done just by individual, at least quite a few masters were involved, the battlemaster was even behind all the framed crimes and ambushes of the BH character, sure Satele Shan was not directly involved but as the head of the jedi order I think she should also be responsible for those. That's why I thought Satele is overall on the good side, but that does not mean she would totally say "NO" to dirty or even cruel plans.

I'm not sure did you play through those quests, I will love to hear your opinion on these things.

Let Darth Nox capture her would be better than Malgus since she(I use a female twilik) was cunning and young.
I have finished the Consular, Trooper, Agent and Inquisitor lines so far. I am currently working on both the Knight and Warrior, both of which are level 37. My Bh is only 17right now, so unlike you I have not gone through much of that story.

I agree, to an extent, that Satele would consider dirty tricks in battle. She would, however, be against cruel plans since it would go against what she believes. The Jedi who do underhanded things pay a price. Yes, Shan is responsible for the overall actions of the Order. That doesn't mean she condones the actions taken by Jedi in the field.

Satele is not the kind of person to be cruel. Mating with Malgus and birthing a child for the sake of ending the Empire would be cruel. She could never put any child through that, let alone her own. Look at the Black talon flashpoint. She said she disabled three dreadnaughts. She could have ordered them destroyed but she didn't. That right there says something about her character.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
11.05.2012 , 05:32 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilikaa View Post
I have finished the Consular, Trooper, Agent and Inquisitor lines so far. I am currently working on both the Knight and Warrior, both of which are level 37. My Bh is only 17right now, so unlike you I have not gone through much of that story.

I agree, to an extent, that Satele would consider dirty tricks in battle. She would, however, be against cruel plans since it would go against what she believes. The Jedi who do underhanded things pay a price. Yes, Shan is responsible for the overall actions of the Order. That doesn't mean she condones the actions taken by Jedi in the field.

Satele is not the kind of person to be cruel. Mating with Malgus and birthing a child for the sake of ending the Empire would be cruel. She could never put any child through that, let alone her own. Look at the Black talon flashpoint. She said she disabled three dreadnaughts. She could have ordered them destroyed but she didn't. That right there says something about her character.
Ok I will tell you the story about it.

Spoiler


Sure she didn't destroy those dreadnaughts and it might totally break the treaty if she did so. Since you had imperial character, you should have done the Foundry right? You see what was Revan doing there, he wanted to wipe out 98% of the imperial population, that was more cruel than most of the Sith I've seen but the Jedi were still aiding him, there were a few masters there. Satele Shan had to be responsible for this as well.

Also why is it cruel? It's not killing anybody, the child would have some love, he just had to fight the empire like many others did.

Ok let's put it aside, do you think she would fall to Darkness like Bastilla did?

JacenHallis's Avatar


JacenHallis
11.05.2012 , 05:36 PM | #45
Just to clear something up, Satele is not the leader of the Republic. She is the leader of the Jedi Order. The Chancellor acts without her approval all the time. In fact, Much of the Republic actually looks down on the Jedi, since their move to Tython was considered "abandonment" of Coruscant by many.
Ruminara Ven
Passion, yet serenity.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
11.05.2012 , 05:50 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by JacenHallis View Post
Just to clear something up, Satele is not the leader of the Republic. She is the leader of the Jedi Order. The Chancellor acts without her approval all the time. In fact, Much of the Republic actually looks down on the Jedi, since their move to Tython was considered "abandonment" of Coruscant by many.
The Jedi were directly involved in it, the killing of those hunters were done by the jedi under the command of the battlemaster Jun Seros. The Chancellor said Master Jun Seros was behind those wrong crimes and made it personal.

I'm not saying it's very evil or unforgivable, it just showed the jedi in TOR's era could be cruel and dirty, even the chancellor said those operations were "atrocious".

elliotcat's Avatar


elliotcat
11.06.2012 , 08:31 PM | #47
Folks have already, quite eloquently, explained the characterization issues. They gave you some good advice, so please do think about it.

This particular pairing is very problematic for reasons besides that, though, too. There's nothing at all wrong with a character who has an NPC for a parent. I have one, other folks have written some. It can be done well. However, you've taken two of the most influential and powerful NPCs, who are enemies, and made them hook up and have a kid. That's a BIG red flag that you're writing a hardcore Mary Sue. Plus, these people are very famous and have a lot of responsibility - there's just no way they'd be able to sneak off and secretly have a child. Someone, somewhere, would find out.

You can certainly write a story about a Sith and a Jedi having a relationship, maybe even having an agreement like the one you described. But those would have to be people who weren't the leaders of their entire Orders. Probably at least one would be low-ranking or a newcomer to the Sith or Jedi at the time of their relationship. So you could write about someone like Darth Baras having a child with a 19-year-old Jedi padawan, or Nomen Karr knocking up a Sith apprentice.

From a storytelling perspective, I wouldn't want to write about Malgus and Satele anyway. There's already tons written about them, and SWTOR is chock full of really interesting NPCs who you could develop your own way. I would so much rather read about someone's unique (but believable) take on some Darth I ran into on a sidequest than read yet another story about Malgus and/or Satele. It gives you a lot more freedom when you're writing your story as well. Even some of the more important NPCs in the class stories don't get that much development, meaning you could give them whatever background you wanted. I think I could name 20 NPCs off the top of my head who I find way more intriguing than either Malgus or Satele.

Ebon Hawk: Latula // Elaeys // Raima // Jaea // Macara // Meulin // Damarra // Kanaaya

"We will snatch purpose from the jaws of futility...are you ready to wreak some havoc?"

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
11.06.2012 , 08:42 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by elliotcat View Post
Folks have already, quite eloquently, explained the characterization issues. They gave you some good advice, so please do think about it.

This particular pairing is very problematic for reasons besides that, though, too. There's nothing at all wrong with a character who has an NPC for a parent. I have one, other folks have written some. It can be done well. However, you've taken two of the most influential and powerful NPCs, who are enemies, and made them hook up and have a kid. That's a BIG red flag that you're writing a hardcore Mary Sue. Plus, these people are very famous and have a lot of responsibility - there's just no way they'd be able to sneak off and secretly have a child. Someone, somewhere, would find out.

You can certainly write a story about a Sith and a Jedi having a relationship, maybe even having an agreement like the one you described. But those would have to be people who weren't the leaders of their entire Orders. Probably at least one would be low-ranking or a newcomer to the Sith or Jedi at the time of their relationship. So you could write about someone like Darth Baras having a child with a 19-year-old Jedi padawan, or Nomen Karr knocking up a Sith apprentice.

From a storytelling perspective, I wouldn't want to write about Malgus and Satele anyway. There's already tons written about them, and SWTOR is chock full of really interesting NPCs who you could develop your own way. I would so much rather read about someone's unique (but believable) take on some Darth I ran into on a sidequest than read yet another story about Malgus and/or Satele. It gives you a lot more freedom when you're writing your story as well. Even some of the more important NPCs in the class stories don't get that much development, meaning you could give them whatever background you wanted. I think I could name 20 NPCs off the top of my head who I find way more intriguing than either Malgus or Satele.
Thx for the advice, but that "relationship" happened long ago(3670 BBY since Theron Shan was around 30 in the game), Satele had not been the head of the Jedi Order yet, and Malgus had not been that powerful yet. Sure they are the most influential TOR Jedi/Sith from our view but not in the Republic/Empire around 3670 BBY.

And I think you and some other guys probably misunderstood, the story is really not focused on their relationship and I plan just to let Malgus make a cameo. Satele Shan and Darth Nox would be the most important characters.

The reason I thought about this "relationship" is that such "relationship" could let Satele Shan come by her own rather than refuse to show up or bring a lot of Jedi.

ShadowNessej's Avatar


ShadowNessej
11.06.2012 , 09:58 PM | #49
I've been reading this and was hoping somebody would say this. I mean, i dont want to stop you from making it and you can as, persay, a fanfiction that goes away from realism but my main concern is:

Why are you asking for advice/criticism?

From what i'm seeing people are trying to warn you about realism and i even saw some good ideas to fix that but you keep shooting all advice down. Like i said if you wanna make it sure but if you're not going to change your mind about any advice given to you, then asking for it is kind of pointless.

Just my opinion.
Kaanth
Clan Epsis
Aliit Ori'shya Tal'din

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
11.06.2012 , 10:35 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by ShadowNessej View Post
I've been reading this and was hoping somebody would say this. I mean, i dont want to stop you from making it and you can as, persay, a fanfiction that goes away from realism but my main concern is:

Why are you asking for advice/criticism?

From what i'm seeing people are trying to warn you about realism and i even saw some good ideas to fix that but you keep shooting all advice down. Like i said if you wanna make it sure but if you're not going to change your mind about any advice given to you, then asking for it is kind of pointless.

Just my opinion.
I want to hear about the advice about what happened after the capture like I said in the OP
Quote:
since then?
, but I also have the right to explain my current plot. I even said if you don't like it let's talk about what could happen next. I do regret for not just saying Satele got captured and what goes next.