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Force bubble way OP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Force bubble way OP
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BoDiE's Avatar


BoDiE
11.25.2012 , 11:06 AM | #531
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
Thanks for posting your thoughts about the stun bubble and its Resolve value. We do plan on making some changes to the bubble in the future, but we're still looking at some different options for addressing concerns about it. We'll continue taking your feedback into account and will let you know more when we can.
Roughly translated as we are looking to bow down to the maranabs again but we don't care because everyone plays one and hey! We have f2p so we are making bucks on the cartel. For all the sorcs we are about to nerf get the lube ready. You're going to need it.
epicfail
Nothing ever good comes from gaming forums.

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
11.25.2012 , 11:18 AM | #532
Quote: Originally Posted by Sulfuren View Post
It has been said -many- times, that not only is this just a one class issue, but its a global issue and the ability is bugged and being exploted, and it has been said -many- times, that we don't care if you get buffed in another area other than keeping the bugged bubble, and it has been said MANY times that most of us agree that mara's need some changes.

But its pretty clear I'm just talking to a wall at this point. Notably you ignoring basically the entirety of my second post with challenges to you and continuing with this garbage.

So just keep on typing, stupid. I'm done.

NOTE: That goes for everyone else with clear tunnel vision in this thread.
Clear tunnel vision because I'm saying to look at something other than the groupwide stun bubble of a class meant to be a group utility/CC class- apparantly, since they have no other roll?

Fine, I'll bite even though I know I shouldn't.

If you people really want to prove you want CC to diminish, and you really want to show this isn't about getting marauders something while nerfing sorcs- then aim the complaints at CC.

Why not ask for a nerf to the CC of marauders? Carnage get 36 seconds of roots per minute- that's resolve ignoring immobilizes. 8 second interrupt CD. AoE mez. A stun. Within one minute, a marauder can interrupt you seven times, root you twelve times for 3 seconds each, mez you and a group, and stun you.

A sorc can mez just you if they can get the cast off, they have a conal KB with a root attached- 20 second CD, with a 2 second immobilize that'll last 5 seconds without damage (like a mez), a 12 second interrupt (for interrupting sorcs and mercs... the two deadliest classes), a stun. In one minute- a sorc can root you for 6 seconds or 15 if you take no damage, can mez one person if allowed to free cast, can do one active stun- even if you added it all up and were to say no damage was taken during the roots (which isn't the case for marauders) you end up with far less time a sorc can keep someone CCed than the roots alone- if we take out the stun bubble. Make that bubble self only and not declickable as people are asking- and we get 9 seconds of stun per minute we can't control... is resolve controlled, and we still end up with less overall CC than the roots of the marauder's CC heavy spec alone.


So- if you really want CC lessened- why are you looking at a class that is supposedly meant to have good CC? Why not look at classes that have high burst, mobility and survival and fix their CC? Before you marauders answer with the obvious 'well cuz we play marauders and can't stand a nerf- nerf sorcs!'- yes, I obviously know why people want sorcs nerfed and marauders not looked at- I'm merely saying it for effect- the effect being showing how this is not about people wanting CC reduced, but about people wanting sorc CC reduced while their own is untouched.

You want some fixes to the heaviness of CC? Fine, here's some fixes that will give marauders a nerf.

- Force charge doesn't immobilize- stagger is moved to the third row (to be carnage exclusive) and gives a 1.5 second immobilize rather than 0.5 seconds. This makes carnage more firmly the CC tree, and seeing as marauders always are saying force charge doesn't have an immobilize unless you spec for it- I don't think most marauders will even realize the difference.
- Displacement causes a root that breaks on damage like a mez, but keeps the length
-Root ravage untouched, but, ravage can be interrupted with an interrupt- again, most marauders won't notice since the number one counter they give when telling sorcs to l2p is 'just interrupt it', well, now that advice will be accurate
- AoE mez has a two second cast time- gives people some time to interrupt it
- make force choke jugg only- heck, most marauders only complain about this ability and say it's utterly useless, so again, they won't even notice it's gone
- put crippling slash on a 12 second CD and make it last 6 seconds to be on par with force slow- why have a better snare than a kiting class anyway?
- move obliterate into the annihilation tree- there, you have a bit of a nerf for rage mara (that's just a small one right? Like how they told sorcs getting instant proc Dark Infusion and instant proc Chain Lightning- the strongest heal and damage they had- removed entirely was 'just a small nerf'). Oh, but replace it with something useful- like, make force charge instead make the next smash cost no rage.

There we go, some nerfs to CC that I don't think will make lol-smashers more powerful as the buff to sorcs did- this nerf also shouldn't nerf the UP class sorcs like a nerf to the bubble will. Less CC- problem solved.

Oh, and before mara start complaining 'but now we has no CC!', oh don't worry about it. See, pvp is a group game, and what you lack will be made up by another class. Just get a sorc to cast stun bubble on you- bam, you have CC!

Wait, where have I heard this before...

"Sorcs are fine with 1.2, they aren't supposed to be able to heal on their own or do great amounts of damage- they can do fine if they have a tank guarding them. You can't expect to be able to do everything in the game by yourself. If you're good, you'll learn to deal and get a tank to protect you at all times."

Oh right- marauders, you guys said it. Well, don't worry- if you want to be able to CC someone, just make sure you always have a sorc with you. You'll learn to deal if you're good, and you can't expect to do everything in the game by yourself.


Buuuuuuuut- people don't want CC reduced, not when the reduction targets themselves- so please, keep focusing on getting sorcs a nerf and focusing on ignoring marauders.

BoDiE's Avatar


BoDiE
11.25.2012 , 11:20 AM | #533
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
Actually, it's not, it's marauders saying 'we are so OP that buffs to other classes now make us more OP than the class that was actually buffed- so rather than nerfing us, nerf the UP class that sucks out of their one useful ability'.

/scrolls down and reads the rest of your post

And there we go again. Another person saying this needs a nerf before it makes the game stun and smash fest- while trying to dissuade people from talking about the real problem- that marauders can do this much damage this fast.

Surely you, sorc whiner, can find something else to do than whine about sorc abilities. Want to know why marauders are the center of every argument? Because they make themselves the center of every argument. Here's a thread packed with marauders asking for sorcs to get a nerf- after months of marauders barging into every thread by sorcs, dps ops and mercs- telling them to l2p, that they suck, that their class is fine- and that the reason why marauders are dominating isn't because marauders are good, but because only good players play marauders, and bad players pick other classes.

If they didn't want to be the center of everything- they shouldn't have spent 6 months deflecting any attempt to talk about the issues with their class being OP- while doing everything they could to prevent any other class from getting a buff.

As you say- there's 50000 threads about marauders- yet nothing has been done about it. You say everyone just wants bubble stuns gone? Well, looks to me by your own admission what everyone really wants is marauders finally looked at after half a year of non-stop, uncontested domination.

And yet, after months of us saying what's wrong with our class, and everyone saying what's wrong with marauders being this strong- BW doesn't say a single thing.

One big thread on sorc force bubble stun though- and BAM, marauders get a response from the devs instantly.

When I make a thread about sorc problems in the sorc forum- I don't get sins or ops telling me to shut up, if anything they'll agree or at least accept what I'm saying- but sure and rain, on the first page a marauder will come in and start talking about how because he gets owned by sorcs, they're fine, and nothing's wrong, and it's time to learn to play, etc.... Like clockwork they descend, every single time- for half a year.

Now- because we have one thing that can ruin their day a bit, they want to come give crocodile tears and act like they are suddenly harbingers of balance? ********- I'm not buying it, nobody's buying it, and frankly they can take their own advice and learn to play.
You just won the thread my friend. Anything else after this post qqing about sorcs is now owned. FACT!
epicfail
Nothing ever good comes from gaming forums.

Sulfuren's Avatar


Sulfuren
11.25.2012 , 12:21 PM | #534
Quote: Originally Posted by BoDiE View Post
Prove it's being exploited.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBV7H92uRG8

Only thing I'm bothering to give you sense I already am going to get the response of "THAT'S NOT EXPLOTING L2P" from the other -five- one sentence posts from you.

BTW - They only lost one game in that entire video.

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
11.25.2012 , 12:34 PM | #535
Quote: Originally Posted by Sulfuren View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBV7H92uRG8

Only thing I'm giving you sense I already am going to get the response of "THAT'S NOT EXPLOTING L2P" from the other three one sentence posts from you.

BTW - They only lost one game in that entire video.
A premade of three who know how to play... of course they won't lose much.

So, I guess it's an exploit in your books to have 3 mara group up and 100-0 people with chain smashes?

Whether or not what you showed was cheap, made pvp unfun for others, etc.....- not an exploit.

Stun bubble has been 'making pvp unfun' for a short time compared to how long marauders have been doing it- deal with marauders first, then move on to the stun bubble.... if of course with the reduced TTK the bubble is even still a problem.


Also- your video makes stunbubbles look like more fun than I've had since pre-1.2 in this game, if anything I want it nerfed even less now. Stunbubbles are so much fun- I say we get more!

Sulfuren's Avatar


Sulfuren
11.25.2012 , 12:35 PM | #536
Quote:
Whether or not what you showed was cheap, made pvp unfun for others, etc.....- not an exploit.
So. How were they chain stunning people then?

Chain smashing, although I'll agree that it's cheap.. does require -some- type of set up and need's to use the ability the right way to use it.

Also, they even use bubble stun awhile -STUNNED-.

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
11.25.2012 , 12:40 PM | #537
Quote: Originally Posted by Sulfuren View Post
So. How were they chain stunning people then?
One person was using a stun, then the second, then the third. Kind of like how one mara can use a smash, then a second, then a third.- that's how, did you not watch it?

Also- they fill resolve dozens of times in the vid, they just stop filming at that point for the first half of the video. Ultimately- they're a CC class using 3 people to CC to the max...

What do you think marauders would say if you were to call having three mara team up on you global you an exploit? Unfair- maybe- but ultimately they'd say 'nobody should survive 2 DPS on them'.

Until they make it so you can survive 2 or 3 dps on you while trying to survive- they shouldn't make it so bunched up players can avoid being CCed by 3 people aiming to chain CC above all else.

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
11.25.2012 , 12:43 PM | #538
Quote: Originally Posted by Sulfuren View Post
So. How were they chain stunning people then?

Chain smashing, although I'll agree that it's cheap.. does require -some- type of set up and need's to use the ability the right way to use it.

Also, they even use bubble stun awhile -STUNNED-.
The bubble requires you to move right up to someone... as a class that has no gap closers. Pop it from a distance.

Yeah... bubble stun procs while stunned... what, should the bubble not work while stunned? I don't see your point here.

darthmorbous's Avatar


darthmorbous
11.25.2012 , 12:44 PM | #539
dude...

massacre+gore+force scream and the bubble is gone.
Trevise Jedi Shadow
Karkus Tritonos, Sith Marauder
Hanunaki ; assassin

Sulfuren's Avatar


Sulfuren
11.25.2012 , 12:50 PM | #540
Quote:
Until they make it so you can survive 2 or 3 dps on you while trying to survive- they shouldn't make it so bunched up players can avoid being CCed by 3 people aiming to chain CC above all else.
What kind of logic is this?

I've given you the fact on how its an exploit, but your saying to change something that ISN'T exploiting at before changing this?

You know what, I have an even better challenge for the folks posting in this thread.

Post a video of your WH augmented toon or team fighting against three smashers for an -entire- match, and then make one fighting Hybrids in a different or even the same match.

Then, we can finally compare both of this issues and see which one is worse, and quite frankly, this three smashing stuff so far doesn't have solid proof to be worse than hybrid bubbles, and IMO its not even has common has the bubble exploit.