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Force bubble way OP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Force bubble way OP
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Reviaj's Avatar


Reviaj
11.02.2012 , 06:38 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by AKfourtyseven View Post
Normally, im not into name dropping, but...

Pwny was doing just fine before the bubble change and id still pick him without the bubble.
A great player that do amazing things can be always included on a team, but that doesn't mean that there are not better classes with more utility.

This bubble makes sorc/sage NEEDED in ranked.

As Feta stated before for ranked you need:
-Juggernaut Tank (Melee)
-Assassin Tank (Melee)
-Carnage Marauder DPS (Melee)

As healers, at least 1 Operative is needed. That makes 4 AC, 4 left? Well, a PT, a Sorc bubble and a sniper eng are pretty needed too right now.

It's what I said before, it's about making classes needed for ranked. The onlyone missing is a merc.

Don't know if I explained myself properly, do you get my point?

heechJunzi's Avatar


heechJunzi
11.02.2012 , 06:38 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Reviaj View Post
You, who claim to play at such higher level, can you give me a reson why you would pick a sorc/sage without stun bubble on your ranked team?

You are complaining about the resolve system as a dps, I challenge you, try to play as a healer (with your commando maybe?). You can get pulled, rooted, stunned, stunned again and then rooted again. Trust me, the bubble is not the worst thing about the resolve system implemented in 1.4.
I have played with/against MANY very good DPS and heals sorc/sages in ranked. I can't think of the last team I played with that didn't have a sage healer.

And by the way, I already have an op healer in aug'ed WH, don't need to start a new one.
Junzi - EWH Sentinel Buxi - EWH Commando Jünzi - EWH Operative
----------- The Harbinger -----------

SneiK's Avatar


SneiK
11.02.2012 , 06:42 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
Repetition of this thread. Resolve is fine. It's a defensive ability of sages/sorcs as they were too vulnerable to high burst dealers. Just make the bubble self-cast only.
It is NOT a defensive ability if you can burst it ON DEMAND. That is, if the sorc can burst it themselves. I'd like BW to respond to this. Is the bubble supposed to be defensive only, which it currently is not.

Also, since it applies to teammates as well, it's not defensive at all. Giving a bubble to melee and them rushing to the enemy is highly effective.

AKfourtyseven's Avatar


AKfourtyseven
11.02.2012 , 06:45 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Reviaj View Post
A great player that do amazing things can be always included on a team, but that doesn't mean that there are not better classes with more utility.

This bubble makes sorc/sage NEEDED in ranked.

As Feta stated before for ranked you need:
-Juggernaut Tank (Melee)
-Assassin Tank (Melee)
-Carnage Marauder DPS (Melee)

As healers, at least 1 Operative is needed. That makes 4 AC, 4 left? Well, a PT, a Sorc bubble and a sniper eng are pretty needed too right now.

It's what I said before, it's about making classes needed for ranked. The onlyone missing is a merc.

Don't know if I explained myself properly, do you get my point?
Yeah i get you. It is how the game is going currently, but i personally dislike classes being needed for only 1 spec, or even worse, 1 skill.

Right now, Sorc/Sage is good either as healer, or needed for the bubble skill itself.

Marauder/Sent is needed for speed boost only.

I hate anything that forces people into a particular spec, I hope the game develops that each class, regardless of spec can bring something thats essential, but different.

High hopes, i know, but still!
Surik - lvl 50 Guardian
Server : The Tomb of Freedon Nadd
Guild : Coral

Joesixxpack's Avatar


Joesixxpack
11.02.2012 , 06:51 AM | #35
Will repeat what I've put in other threads on this subject:

- Stun bubble is fine for their casters, the squishy healers
- Stun bubble isn't fine for others, but a plain ol' bubble is

Only plus to the stun bubble so far I'm finding is that more people are depending on them as part of their play tactics, and forgetting how to defend themselves properly. Thus they're easier to kill. Or good tactics are replaced with dumb bubble-centric tactics. Example: In a VS last night a few healers stayed behind when my team blew threw a door. They put up their bubbles, obviously a planned effort to stun/delay us. Instead we easily burned them down and they went to wait on the spawn timer, unable to help their team on the bridge controls where their healing was needed badly.
SifuStoli Sage | Joesixxpack VG | BBQ'Ribs GS | Hawt'Sauce Guard | Dark'nStormy Scrap
ilotSufiS Mara | BBQRibs Sin | BBQSammich PT | BBQSawce MM | Dark'n'Stormy Op Med
PROPHECY OF THE FIVE

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
11.02.2012 , 06:58 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Reviaj View Post
If you make it self-cast you kill the sage/sorc healer in PvP. All our heals are casted and the bubble give us the time to cast and heal someone, without the bubble by the time we cast our heal our teammate is already dead.

Just my opinion. I would rather improve the talents of the top of the trees of corruption and madness (seer and balance) so it forces players to go full tree and not hybrid.

As a sorc healer, full healer is not that good in PvP. The AoE heals a lot... if you can cast it and if everybody stands on it, and that is pretty difficult in PvP since everybody is moving around and a good team will never let you cast the AoE (or in case you cast it, they will kick you out of there). That's why you rather go hybrid and get more survivability.

If they improve the talents on the top as it could be, for example, remove the 20% snare of affliction (that none uses) and give an extra 0'25 sec reduction per point to dark infusion, it might be interesting to go higher on the tree so no more hybrids. Same thing if you increase the damage in creeping death in madness or if you change devour (again, I think noone uses it) for crit rating on DoTs instead of that extra healing.

As Sage dps, what do you think?
Yes I can understand what you mean by forbidding healer sages/sorcs to cast force armour as it has always been part of their healing rotation. On the other hand healer sages are probably the best for burst quick healing so they should be able to heal someone even without the bubble armor (having played healer in the past, and have a 44 healer scoundrel); in return they lack mobility healing and healing over time other than the aoe healing, but the other two healing classes also have a similar aoe heal (but the sages one I think is the best).

About "forcing" full tree specs I am not sure. I don't see why there should be less variety. If someone likes playing hybrid then so be it. If someone wants to go full tree then again let it be. The only issue is that there is a clear advantage on being hybrid at the moment, so yes the top tier skills of a sage (at least in dps) should be enhanced slightly so that people have a choice. As a developer said you can sacrifice 10% of your dps/healing for survivability. Having said that though, every class seems to have "favourable" trees at every release. Giving an example, at the moment the rage/focus tree for guards/jugs has shown that is the best tree to go for dps, while in the past the upper hand was with watchman/annihilation for sents/maras.

The changes you are suggesting might be an improvement, but I think it is complicated as different skills should create synergies with each other.

Overall I think that the survivability of hybrid sages/sorcs has increased a lot since 1.4 and this is nice. I'm trying to look at the holistic picture, and that's why I think like others that the stun bubble on teamates is not a nice thing in terms of active game. The only simple solution that I see that doesn't involve punishing sages is to make bubble armor self-cast. An alternative might be that the stun effect is removed from teamates, so healer sages rotations are not affected. Also a third solution is that it is only destroyed on damage and cannot be debuffed. Anything else is a nerf to the survivability of sages/sorcs. Increasing resolve amount, making it a mezz, etc. are nonsense. If other classes are masters of burst dps and damage reduction due to armour or defensive abilities, then sages/sorcs are (or should be) masters of CC. This is how they fight. Sages/sorcs have never complained that their obelix/franklin throws do 30-60% less damage on other classes. It wouldn't make sense as this is how the game is meant to be. The bubble force stun is not only a buff to sages/sorcs but a whole game changer. It will and has made people think of new tactics to exploit/avoid it, but overall unfortunately in my opinion it is not for the best in terms of fun.

cub-lover's Avatar


cub-lover
11.02.2012 , 07:03 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by warultima View Post
Not only I have both Marauder and PT, I also play a concealment operative now.
If they come to the forum and QQ about the bubble stun as lolmara or lolsmasher they really should try to do it on a concealment operative.

Funny thing is people playing non-fotm class like Concealment Operatives didnt cry about bubble stun yet the much stronger classes like Mara/Guardian/PT are chain QQing... well maybe its because none fotm players are so rare nowdays OR maybe these fotms are so used to sorcs being free kills and is unhappy about a sorc can now pose a threat to their facerolling ACs.
i agree completly with you i currently have a level 50 tank sin, a level 47 healer merc, a level 23 pure madness sorc, an a level 15 engineerign sniper and a level 41 ani marauder. not once have i ever gone into the fotm spec with any of those toons i play simply because i think peopel who roll fotm classes/specs are jsut sad thta dont know how to play a class properly. with ym marauder, i target the stealth able classes specifically so i can put bleeds on them, so that if i die, other team mates can finis hthe job, with my merc i heal people who i suspect are tanks, when in relaity they jsut used the tank form/charge. my sniepr im yet to decide a play style, and my sorcer is a prue pve toon, ill do pvp with it once in a while to earn soem credits via dailies

Krozis's Avatar


Krozis
11.02.2012 , 07:15 AM | #38
The PVP meta ( on my server at least) seems to be so heavily melee and specifically it seems smash or cloak. If you're not cloaking, you're smashing.

At least with stun bubbles it gives ranged a little more function. I feel like my ranged characters have a touch more meaningful presence in a match with stun bubblers. (IE: I try to pop bubbles.)

I have a lot of 50's, and the only time I truly get perturbed at bubblers is with someone like my operative when I'm not paying attention. But even my op doesn't have a problem popping them -before- going in... or planning full resolve runs at bubblers.
̿̿'̿̿\̵͇̿̿\= Formerly from a big guild that is now hundreds of tiny guilds. =/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ ̿
Krozis \ Vintego \ Vint

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
11.02.2012 , 07:38 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by SneiK View Post
It is NOT a defensive ability if you can burst it ON DEMAND. That is, if the sorc can burst it themselves. I'd like BW to respond to this. Is the bubble supposed to be defensive only, which it currently is not.
*sigh*. Would the change of word from "defensive" to "survivability" make it up for you?

Quote: Originally Posted by SneiK View Post
Also, since it applies to teammates as well, it's not defensive at all. Giving a bubble to melee and them rushing to the enemy is highly effective.
Already expressed my opinion on this. You will see we agree with each other.

Pvtcarnage's Avatar


Pvtcarnage
11.02.2012 , 08:18 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by AKfourtyseven View Post
Say what you want, but anyone who seriously plays ranked knows the impact the bubble change has had on the game. To be more specific, the fact the bubble is now a stun, but only fills resolve like its a mezz.

Instead of just trying to protect what they have, it would be better if people just accepted facts. Force bubble as it is now is overpowered, because its currently in a state that is effectively bugged. Once it fills resolve how its meant to be, the total time stunned in warzones will drop dramatically.
Exactly, anyone who says this is ok does not understand how it can be used and has yet to meet good players that do....PERIOD. Our Ranked team uses this and some friends on Imp side run it and all agree it's to OP as is.

1) Needs to add more resolve, 4 to fill is just silly
2)not be able to activate by clicking off buff icon (you can do this while stunned btw)
"Equality is a perversion of the natural order!…It binds the strong to the weak. They [the weak] become anchors that drag the exceptional down to mediocrity. Individuals destined and deserving of greatness have it denied them.
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