Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Thankfully, a nail in the coffin of the EU

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Thankfully, a nail in the coffin of the EU

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.02.2012 , 03:42 AM | #61
Are people actually calling the Thrawn trilogy mediocre? I swear 90% of the fanbase has the worst taste I've seen, most of you probably think the Darth Bane series is the greatest of the lot.

xxIncubixx's Avatar


xxIncubixx
11.02.2012 , 04:57 AM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by OldRepJedi View Post
People just don't get it. Anything that has been published is "canon". It all had to be signed off by the bearded one. So if it has been published, created, played on a console, viewed on Cartoon Central, it is considered canon in the Star Wars Universe. I personally have loved a lot of the books that have come out of the EU. Some of them p***** me off (re: the death of Mara Jade), but on the whole, they have some really talented writers that have written a lot of the books. My favorites were Timothy Zahn's. He was highly perturbed when they killed Mara Jade also. Not what he envisioned for her when he created her character. But on the whole, the EU books have given me over 20 years worth of reading. Some good, some not so good depending on the writer. Oh yeah, and to those who think that books are a lower art form than film making, get an imagination. I get more out of books than I do out of any movie. It is a shame that the younger generation has lost their imaginations. They are all for immediate gratification and what they can get out of a 2 hour movie. It's a shame. Writing is the ultimate art form. It takes a trully creative person to put into writing what they invision for others to read and get substance out of.

Reboot of Star Wars-No. Nail in the coffin of the EU-I don't think so. A new adventure in a galaxy far, far away-waiting with bated breath.
no cannon to lucas, is only the movies, everything else (games, books etc) are like an alternate universe, the true Cannon is only the movies and thats it.

Emperor_Kakashi's Avatar


Emperor_Kakashi
11.02.2012 , 05:41 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by xxIncubixx View Post
no cannon to lucas, is only the movies, everything else (games, books etc) are like an alternate universe, the true Cannon is only the movies and thats it.
I'd post that whole levels of canon thing, but I'm pretty sure most on here have seen it enough. EU is canon, as has been argued too often. Lucas didn't give a damn about anything outside the movies, so he he put someone else in charge of the continuity. And anyway, guess who isn't running LucasFilm anymore?

Also, it's canon, not cannon.

xxIncubixx's Avatar


xxIncubixx
11.02.2012 , 06:47 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Emperor_Kakashi View Post
I'd post that whole levels of canon thing, but I'm pretty sure most on here have seen it enough. EU is canon, as has been argued too often. Lucas didn't give a damn about anything outside the movies, so he he put someone else in charge of the continuity. And anyway, guess who isn't running LucasFilm anymore?

Also, it's canon, not cannon.
nah its not, he will never base his movie on something that was written by some random author, the true canon are the movies. You can choose to believe that rest is also canon but thats your choice. Fact is the new movies wont be based at all on the EU, and i even doubt there will be any mentions.

Samiel's Avatar


Samiel
11.02.2012 , 06:48 AM | #65
Honestly I have this problem with both the current post-rotj eu literature, and the proposed episodes VII-IX. It boils down to dilution. I love the classic trilogy with a firey burning passion, and I can accept the prequels as flawed as they are. However continuation into further dramatic galactic engulfing conflicts diminishes the emotional resolution I felt at the conclusion of VI. The prophecy had come full circle, Anakin Skywalker redeemed himself and finally destroyed the Sith, freedom was restored to the galaxy, Luke, Leia, Han et al lived happily ever after.....

Only they didn't in the EU: Emperor Palpatine flanged himself a ressurection, turned Luke to the darkside only to be redeemed by Leia at the eleventh hour in what was merely an inferior recycling of the whole story of his father. Someone goes on to invent the anti Jedi species with the yuuzhan vong, more wars, more death and more suffering. Han & Leia's kids aren't even spared it going on to fight suffer, fall and the whole Skywalker legacy go on to suffer yet more tragedy as they set about killing each other. Peace and resolution is never reached, It all just goes on and on ad nauseum. All the while just chipping away at that nice, cheerful and hopeful resolution we all got way back in 1983.

Now as damning as that all is I'm not against the EU. Star Wars is massively popular I get that, and when something is as massively popular someone is always going to want to sell you more of it. In addition there are some real gems in the EU body of books, shows and videogames. Heavens I wouldn't be here posting on an online game forum set in that universe if I didn't get a kick out of some elements. Doubtless some people disagree with me, and loved the Dark Empire comics or the yuuzhan vong invastion story arcs, and if you did more power to you. My above thoughts are nothing more than an opinion piece.

What gets me most is how divisive all this gets. People debate for hours and hours on points of continuity figuratively bashing themselves over the head over who knows more than who, as if it somehow proves who is the better star wars fan. Do you know what gets lost in all of this? The spirit of Star Wars, if they take the new episodes in a different direction so be it, and if that flies in the face of EU canon, that doesn't matter. If any of these stories have fired your imagination, then they have done thier job, and nobody can take that away from you. I'll watch these new films, hoping that they will fan that spark that they did when I was a kid, and perhaps more importantly ignite that spark in a whole new generation with tales of love, adventure and good vs evil. If they manage to do that I will be satisfied.

Star Wars may have "belonged" to George Lucas, and now to Disney. However the stories are ours, they belong to humanity. They are now a part of our collective unconscious and alway will be, and no one can own that. People talk a lot of continuity, but interestingly the emotional component is often alluded to, but never addressed. That lovely resolution of a story well told way back in RotJ, and the incredibly important emotional dimension it held for me has never been dampened, if something came along that "contradicted" that feeling it simply failed to resonate, and never joined the constellation of bright stars that burned in my mind of stories that I cherish. This has nothing to do with "facts" about the Star Wars universe or anything as pedestrian as "canon". I hope in time more people come to realize this, and allow Star Wars to inspire.
Guild Master Of The Rogue Council

LegacyBroken's Avatar


LegacyBroken
11.02.2012 , 06:50 AM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Emperor_Kakashi View Post
I'd post that whole levels of canon thing, but I'm pretty sure most on here have seen it enough. EU is canon, as has been argued too often. Lucas didn't give a damn about anything outside the movies, so he he put someone else in charge of the continuity. And anyway, guess who isn't running LucasFilm anymore?

Also, it's canon, not cannon.
Exactly everything in the EU that hasn't been contradicted by the Movies or TCW is considered canon. There is over 20 years worth of post ROTJ EU material which equals alot of merchandising dollars. If Disney is smart, they will design these movies around the Post ROTJ EU material and make them coexist in one cohesive continuity. That way not only are the core fans who like the EU still happy but they also get to continue to reap the benefits of the money that the material brings in along with the opportunity to market that material to more people as a prelude to the new trilogy which can be connected to the Post ROTJ EU.

LordHartigan's Avatar


LordHartigan
11.02.2012 , 07:01 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by LordPorkins View Post
Just to answer some points some people have made....

This discussion isn't about whether books are better than films as an art medium. They have different strengths and weaknesses. However when one is adapted from the other, the new art form tends to be weaker. In other words, films of books tend to be inferior to books, and vice versa.

In the case of Star Wars, the reason it was so big was because it did something on the cinema screen that no other movie had done at that time. Audiences were wowed and captured by a new cinematic experience.

The books and spin offs comics that followed were not groundbreaking in any way because they were not produced by a visionary or creative genius the way the films were. They were mediocre books that would not appear on a single 'must read' list, unless you were a star wars fan starved of new star wars material.

The expanded universe is weak because of this. There is nothing unusual or remarkable about it.

I actually agree that the expanded universe is only going to expand as a result of the new films. New films means new spin offs.

But the inspiration, and what captures the imagination about Star Wars is what appears on the cinema screen, no one got into Star Wars from reading the books.
Again most simply aren't going to agree with you on this. No one is going to claim the Thrawn trilogy is up there with War and Peace in terms of literary excellence, but that was never the goal. The goal of everything that exists outside of the films was and is to tell more stories and expand upon this universe. You simply don't recognize your own biases. You're one of those SW fans who doesn't except anything outside of what appears on a movie screen. That's fine if that's the limit of your imagination, but it doesn't objectively mean that everything else is 'less than' the movies. Quite the contrary, while Lucas vision of this universe is certainly great and the overall story of the 6 movies decent, you can certainly argue that many of the EU stories, whether it be book, comic book or video game, have been told better than Lucas told the movies. A good scrip writer, Lucas is not as evidence by the fact that the two films considered the best by many are ones he didn't direct.

The EU is not some half *** version or piggybacking on of the movies. Lucas created a UNIVERSE and time didn't start at The Phantom Menace and end at Return of the Jedi in that uinverse. The EU exists because at least some people had the imaginination to wonder what happened before after and inbetween what occurs on the films. Is it all Shakespeare? No. But it is certainly not unnatural for people to want to know what else goes on and happened in this universe and it certainly is some bastardization of the films for someone other than Lucas to tell those stories. Again I point out to you, you are posting on a message board that would not be here if not extended universe were allowed or desired to exist by Lucas.

LordHartigan's Avatar


LordHartigan
11.02.2012 , 07:11 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by xxIncubixx View Post
no cannon to lucas, is only the movies, everything else (games, books etc) are like an alternate universe, the true Cannon is only the movies and thats it.
Also not true. While not everything outside of the moveis is canon, Lucas has signed off on things outside of the movies as being Canon. The Force Unleashed video game, for example, is considered canon.

LordHartigan's Avatar


LordHartigan
11.02.2012 , 07:20 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Samiel View Post
Honestly I have this problem with both the current post-rotj eu literature, and the proposed episodes VII-IX. It boils down to dilution. I love the classic trilogy with a firey burning passion, and I can accept the prequels as flawed as they are. However continuation into further dramatic galactic engulfing conflicts diminishes the emotional resolution I felt at the conclusion of VI. The prophecy had come full circle, Anakin Skywalker redeemed himself and finally destroyed the Sith, freedom was restored to the galaxy, Luke, Leia, Han et al lived happily ever after.....
This concerns me too that the new trilogy just won't have that same depth, but I would propose you consider this as possibility. See I disagree that by the end of VI everything had come full circle. While Palpatine masterminded it, Anakin/Vader was in large part responsible for the destruction of the jedi order. To me full circle, would be a restablishment of the jedi order. Luke rebuilding what his father destroyed would be coming full circle in my mind and I think that could make for some good movies. Luke starting an academy on Tython, Taris or Yavin IV. Luke being the head of the jedi council on Coruscant. The trials and tribulations of building the order but ultimatley having it restored to its former glory by the end of IX I think could be pretty good on the big screen.

Emperor_Kakashi's Avatar


Emperor_Kakashi
11.02.2012 , 07:20 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by xxIncubixx View Post
nah its not, he will never base his movie on something that was written by some random author, the true canon are the movies.
We haven't been given confirmation on the writer yet, at least not that I'm aware. True canon, sure, but not they aren't the only part of Star Wars canon.

Quote:
Fact is the new movies wont be based at all on the EU, and i even doubt there will be any mentions.
The PT movies had references to EU, so I see no reason the next trilogy won't.

Quote: Originally Posted by LegacyBroken View Post
Exactly everything in the EU that hasn't been contradicted by the Movies or TCW is considered canon. There is over 20 years worth of post ROTJ EU material which equals alot of merchandising dollars. If Disney is smart, they will design these movies around the Post ROTJ EU material and make them coexist in one cohesive continuity. That way not only are the core fans who like the EU still happy but they also get to continue to reap the benefits of the money that the material brings in along with the opportunity to market that material to more people as a prelude to the new trilogy which can be connected to the Post ROTJ EU.
I agree with this, and don't really see any reason why this won't be the case. It's not like they're replacing all the LucasFilm staff, the only real changes are the fact that Disney now gets money from the Star Wars universe, and George Lucas has retired. I really don't expect that they'll just ignore all that's been done.