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I didn't realise how bad PvP was broken, until tonight - and why nobody does RWZ's

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
I didn't realise how bad PvP was broken, until tonight - and why nobody does RWZ's

AKfourtyseven's Avatar


AKfourtyseven
10.31.2012 , 08:05 PM | #11
This time again eh?
Surik - lvl 50 Guardian
Server : The Tomb of Freedon Nadd
Guild : Coral

RazielHex's Avatar


RazielHex
10.31.2012 , 08:07 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Antipodes View Post
Pretty sure he said that even with gear, the other team would still beat them with coordination. Which does imply L2P (i.e. practicing coordination/communication).
"The better team won! It isn't fair!"

Sweeet's Avatar


Sweeet
10.31.2012 , 08:08 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Antipodes View Post
That statement reminds me of keyboard turners that get mad when people strafe behind them in a duel, and complain about how it's not 'honorable" to do that.
This has nothing to do with honour, it has everything to do with competitive PvP being fair for all. Currently the way in which CC allows for players to coordinate and take people out of combat for prolonged periods of times in turn with the VERY HIGH spike damage, makes PvP completely one-sided.

Think about it like this: If damage was not so high, having half your team sat in a mezz wouldn't be so bad as you could sit it out then get back into the fight with a chance of winning. But having half your team in a mezz and then picking off the ones who break out in seconds, yes killing said players in seconds, is not fair or sporting. And in my case having better gear would not make a difference to the time in which they kill me as I am already pretty much at the expertise and health cap possible for me to get, all I can really do now is raise my damage which would not have helped me at all in these warzones tonight.

I'm not attacking Bioware in a blind rage here, I'm looking at the solution they have provided for competitive PvP and I am shaking my head in disgrace. It's just plain awful.

Quote: Originally Posted by Antipodes View Post
If you feel grenades are overpowered, then make a new thread (since grenades are *not* exclusive to RWZs) with a strong argument on why that is. I would somewhat agree with you that grenades are OP, but as long as it is in the game, you can't fault players for using them.
Exactly, and they, combined with all the other CC and crappy resolve make competitive PvP a big mess. I just didn't realise just how big a mess until tonight.

Antipodes's Avatar


Antipodes
10.31.2012 , 08:15 PM | #14
Grenades have a cooldown, and your team has access to them too. Good teams don't get wiped out fast. In fact, it's incredibly hard to cap the middle nodes of Novare/CW because people often respawn faster than the rate of killing.

AKfourtyseven's Avatar


AKfourtyseven
10.31.2012 , 08:16 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Sweeet View Post
Currently the way in which CC allows for players to coordinate and take people out of combat for prolonged periods of times in turn with the VERY HIGH spike damage, makes PvP completely one-sided.
Its only one-sided if they can do it and you cant. In theory you both can, the only thing preventing it is skill.

There are some issues with PvP, but its not "one-sided". Some players are better than others, end of story. For me, the biggest issue with PvP right now is the sorc/sage bubble and it only granting half the resolve it should.
Surik - lvl 50 Guardian
Server : The Tomb of Freedon Nadd
Guild : Coral

Sweeet's Avatar


Sweeet
10.31.2012 , 08:24 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by AKfourtyseven View Post
This time again eh?
You say that like PvP in it's current state is actually a good thing for the game

People will do the best with what they've got, they will always take the least path of resistance. I'm not blaming the players here, but when that path breaks the PvP experience for others by making them literally helpless, it will only put them off of the game. Sometimes you have to look at what is best for the whole and not just for your immediate gratification.

PvP in it's current sate is hurting the game, it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Just because something takes skill to pull off doesn't stop it from being a cheap tactic.

MorgothQuick's Avatar


MorgothQuick
10.31.2012 , 08:27 PM | #17
In the games current state, F2P people will play a few wzs and never touch them again. Or worse, will tell their friends that pvp is terrible and Bioware will lose a lot of possible subs. That isn't good for the long term health of the game.

Sweeet's Avatar


Sweeet
10.31.2012 , 08:29 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by AKfourtyseven View Post
Its only one-sided if they can do it and you cant. In theory you both can, the only thing preventing it is skill.

There are some issues with PvP, but its not "one-sided". Some players are better than others, end of story. For me, the biggest issue with PvP right now is the sorc/sage bubble and it only granting half the resolve it should.
Yes true both party's can potentially do it, but as I said above it doesn't stop it from being a cheap tactic and it really is hurting PvP in it's current state. It's holding the game back, it really is. I know a lot of people who have quit over the state of PvP, and I really can't fault them.

Moriganno's Avatar


Moriganno
10.31.2012 , 08:45 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Sweeet View Post
Well my guild decided to do some Ranked Warzones tonight. Half the team were in full BiS WH, the other half a mix BM/WH - myself being a mix of BM/WH. All of us fully augmented.

Now all you people out there saying that a fully augmented BM player is comparable to a fully augmented WH player, are flat out lying or have no idea what they are talking about. The team we went up against, multiple times, have all BiS WH and spammed grenades like there is no tomorrow. I have never, in my entire time spent PvP'ing, died so quickly or have been CC'd so much.

I had quite a few 1v1's versus these guys, and my Sentinel could not do a thing to beat any of them, even specs I know how to beat and beat all the time in normal WZ's. Is was not a matter of skill, just shear damage. I have over 1300 Expertise and these guys were cutting through me like butter and there was not a thing I could do about it, even with my uber defensive cooldowns. I was being taken down with shear brute force alone.

The last game we played, Huttball, was just a complete joke. I can now say without a shadow of a doubt that the resolve change was the worst idea Bioware have ever had. In a competitive PvP setting it should not be possible to spend over half the game either completely incapacitated or unable to move through grenade/slow spamming. These were pro's and when they mezzed, they made sure not to break us out of it and just focused us one at a time. The trouble is, we could be mezzed/stunned/incapacitated so many times within a minute, our stun breaker was pretty much useless.

You people think going up against a 4-man premade of BiS WH players is bad...I think you would quit the game entirely if you played the team we played tonight. These guys were sick, both in a good and a bad way. It just highlighted how utterly broken PvP is at a competitive level - no wonder Season 1 hasn't started yet, it would be absolute carnage.

And it doesn't matter if you finally reach BiS yourself, the damage a competent team is capable of through clever use of grenade spamming and coordinating attacks, will bring the best geared player down in seconds. That kind of damage should not be possible in a competitive PvP environment, it is game breaking. I have close to the Expertise cap and 18500 health, so even when I do each BiS myself, I will still die just as quickly, I just may stand a chance at killing them before they kill me. Assuming I stick around that long, this DPS arms race is not fun in the slightest. One mistake, and it's dead. One cooldown unavailable, and it's dead.

I knew PvP was in a bad place right now, but I had no idea just how bad until going up against this team tonight. I'm appalled that PvP has been allowed to get this bad. At the very least damage needs to be toned down, I see no logical reason for it being so high when BiS with the limited health pools available, none at all. And the resolve change, my god what were Bioware thinking... So stay away from Ranked Warzones if you want to continue to find some solace in PvP, it's a bad joke, and that joke will be on you - unless your whole team is BiS and can grenade spam and coordinate your attacks to effectively nullify the entire other team because resolve is broken and damage is too high....

And for the record this isn't a QQ post, this is a where did it all go wrong post? So very very wrong...
The problem with the Match making system in RWZs is simply the lack of one. They just put random teams who queue against each other, and often scenarios like you have described happens. You are simply outskilled/outclassed by those players, and your team is unable to coordinate and work together like the opposite team. You got destroyed. So play more and learn to play on a higher lvl, or quit? Your QQ on the forums won't make you better.

What they have or can do, is available to everyone.

Draekos's Avatar


Draekos
10.31.2012 , 08:47 PM | #20
The problem is the competition you should be facing is most likely farming normals in a 4 man premade. I imagine the elite team you faced is just as annoyed with the situation. That said CC is the one fair thing in the game, your team can do exactly the same thing, no grinding or rank required.
Currently playing Nhatt Sixpack on the Bastion.