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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?
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Ossos's Avatar


Ossos
03.28.2013 , 12:29 PM | #1771
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
... For a DPS spec will you bring them over any other class and why? That's the real rub. If you dropped 2.0 commando (the skills and abilities not the level 55) into the game today there might be a reason to bring them. Everyone else got buffed too, and being all pessimistic, I don't think our buffs have noticeably moved us up when we compare to all the other buffs others have gotten.
BINGO!!

This is my issue. They do too little damage. Merc/Coms (as DPS) are the opposite of threatening. They are a turret class which means they rate a 1 out of 10 on the mobility scale. Their core damage spec requires that they not move in order to do meh damage. Their mobile spec (assault/pyro) lets them move but they still do meh damage.

They have few CCs and the new Electro Net approachs Merc/Comms (DPS) as though they are mobile classes, they're not, they're turrets. If someone is going to be a turret they should pump out a ton of damage. They are "Heavy Weapons Guy." They should only be susceptible to a class that can get the jump on them and bust out a ton of INITIAL damage (stealth classes). Other than that, if they regroup, you should be in for a hell of a fight.

As it stands now, Sniper/GS is currently "Heavy Weapons Guy". They are susceptible to the stealth specs. However, if they regrouped quickly when jumped, the stealth classes have a fight on their hands. All other classes must learn to LoS and treat the GS/Sniper as the open field danger that they are. - not the case with Merc/Comms.

If Merc/Comms are going to have so little damage, then they need to have more CC. If they are going to have so little CC, then they need a crap ton more damage.

The problem is that if they "fix" Merc/Comms in either respect, then they are simply nothing more than a GS/Sniper in a different skin. So there lies another problem, brining us to:
  • DPS Merc/Comm has no role
  • DPS Merc/Comm has no DPS
  • DPS Merc/Comm has no CC
  • DPS Merc/Comm has the worst mitigation in the game

How about this, make them the AOE class. Give them abilities that do damage that jumps from player to player. Does X damage to player 1. Does X+N to player 1 if player 2 is within 5 yards of player 1...if player 1 and 2 are within 5 yds of each other or the Merc/Comm, then does X+N1 to player 2...and so on.

Make them weak 1 v 1. But if it's a 1 v 2, make it that more likely that the Merc/Comm will win. How do you beat them in this case? Take the fight somewhere else (make them chase you)...or send in a stealth class...or a JK/SW that does a ton of internal damage (not mitigated by armor).

...this sort of sounds like what they are now, but the AoE is currently boo, and the direct damage they are capable of is more of an irritant.

Sigh...whatever, BW (has already admitted that they don't play the class) is making the dumb changes that they are going to make and everyone in the Merc/Comm threads and forums is basically jerk-ing themselves thinking that their 2 ft ladder is going to let them reach as high as the 12 ft ladder will.
Preventing Hackers and Exploiters from ruining the game is not a priority. Preventing you from mentioning the fact that they exist and go unpunished is.

Lalainnia's Avatar


Lalainnia
03.28.2013 , 01:16 PM | #1772
Sigh.....

From a healing point of view were worse in 2.0 then live for PVP why? literally because scoundrels and sages got buffed so above and beyond us. Before it was our ability to stay alive longer than a scoundrel or sage( even then that was very rare needed full resolve our shield both adrenals and the ammo to heal up). In 2.0 Sages and scoundrels crush us in pure Hps and have closed the gap in terms of staying alive or even surpass it. The Alacrity changes benefits mandos the least out of the 3 healers,so we still run into major ammo issues during heavy healing fights,while we also have the worst healing regain when our resources drop. Our talent tree is even horrible as we have to waste points to get to an actual useful talent for our trauma probe. Hold the line is really helpful for huttball when it comes to positioning and having to spot carry the ball but thats about it since we cant cast while moving and since vanguards got this baseline aswell they're going to have more use out of it. Electronet is one of the most overhyped abilites to date imo, it can stopped with the cc breaker and it doesnt work on ppl that are already using a Resilence, force speed(healers), hold the line etc.

We are still the easiest healer to shutdown seeing that our strongest healing moves are both casted. and if adv med probe is interupted we can't even get off a proper rotation off and its going to hurt our ammo big time if we cast a med probe without the buff.

Our top tier ability Bacta Infusion should be the reason people say * I wish I had that on my sage/scoundrel* atm it heals for craps slighty higher then Emergency probe and far less then Force mend.

Kolto Bomb another over hyped ability that personally ticks me off when ppl say it has such a low cd and it heals 4 ppl has a 3 sec slow attached to it and gives a 3% healing buff to anyone it touched... for starters this move heals for crap its truly only useful when it crits not to mention we have to aim it every single time. the main issues i have with this move is it's hard to fit in during heavy healing fights in pvp simply b/c it hurts ammo more then it heals imo

On a side note related to dps mandos, they're the worse offhealer out of the 3 classes b/c of resource managment
not to mention the 9 sec cd on adv med probe

So imo were less viable in 2.0 then we are live because of the buffs sages and scoundrel received.
Donna-Commando-Combat Medic
When we care for others our own strength to live increases. When we help people expand their state of life, our lives also expand. Actions to benefit others are not separate from actions to benefit oneself.

Phrase's Avatar


Phrase
03.28.2013 , 01:17 PM | #1773
Quote: Originally Posted by thesadplanet View Post
Electronet, despite being on a long cooldown, could be a huge help in terms of burning down targets. In ranked, when you are fighting in a large battle, one kill could make all the difference and electronet is absolutely a game changing ability.
Quote: Originally Posted by thesadplanet View Post
Snipers don't have an ability like electro net, which can completely change the course of a game by using it to make a healer extremely vulnerable.
I give good healers (actually just players) 2 days max to figure out how to deal with electro-net. Everyone else will have it figured out in the first week. If they don't, then they're just bad. And the long cooldown turns it from mildly annoying, to a whimsical novelty.

Sixgun
The Bastion

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
03.28.2013 , 01:19 PM | #1774
I will, as always, bow to Donna's opinions when it comes to PVP Commando healers as she's the best at that I know.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

ChicagoBearsFan's Avatar


ChicagoBearsFan
03.28.2013 , 02:04 PM | #1775
Quote: Originally Posted by thesadplanet View Post
I will admit that I'm not an expert at mercenary or sniper. But from an outsiders perspective looking in, it looks like mercenaries have a ton of tools that will make them a pain to kill in 2.0. They already had some decent tools, such as the best knockback in the game, a decent insta cast heal, as well as some more typical stuff like stuns and a 30m cc. But now with hydraulic overrides and kolto bomb, as well as being a heavy armor class, they are going to be a pain to take down.
I sincerely thank you for your comments, but as you said, "from an outsider looking in". The merc/ commandos do SEEM like they would be a great class for PVP, but in reality, they are still at a disadvantage. They seem to have a nice bag of tricks but they really don't all come together to provide a solid role for the commando. We are easily out healed or out DPSed by other classes on a consistent basis.
We have a stealth probe you say? Sure the stealth probe is nice, but that that just means in the off chance we land it on a stealther we know our *** is going to be handed to us a few seconds earlier. It might be different if we could actually kill the assassin or operative 1 on 1 when we found them.
30m CC? It's a soft CC and with the exorbant use of dots it is mostly useless or it never fails that some saber jocky tags them right after CC, now freeing them to finish your beat down with a full resolve bar.
Our knock back, pretty cool on Voidstar and huttball, but mostly it just gives those jump-smashers range for another jump at you. The sniper can at least root at range. They already nerfed our cryo grenade range so we can't freeze them at range anymore.
Heavy armor? I wish it functioned like the other heavy armor classes. It just looks cool, but as far as providing protection? It offers the same protection as a worn out Jawa robe. Our defensive shield, someone actually called it a commando version of "I win shield", lol that was a good one. Even if I pop that it just means I die one second later than normal.
Don't get me wrong, I love my commando, it is my main and I have gone through the gear grind a few times now (BW I still hate you for that.), but any one who plays other classes extensively and plays a commando can't seriously think it is on par with other classes for PVP.

I have topped the charts one time or another as both healer and a DPS, but in those rare cases I was largly left alone. Other classes can still put up big numbers even under duress. Is it just about the numbers? No. Utility can play an even bigger part in a win. But what does the commando REALLY bring to the table that isn't provided by another class in a better all around package. I was AMAZED when I rolled a shadow and a scoundrel at how many instant cast skills they had compared to a commando. Right now, our heavy reliance on cast skills is what holds the commando back. I am looking forward to the changes that 2.0 brings, but other classes are getting up grades too, so in the end, I think it just maintains the status quo with commandos being last in the pecking order.

I wonder, how often do you see a commando/merc in a WZ on the other team and think,"awe crap" I bet not very often. Or how often have you gotten beat down by a commando 1v1? If you did, you probably suck, or they were well geared and you just mostly suck. Now not every class is going to be awesome 1v1, I get that, but when it comes to the commando/merc, given our current skill sets, it is always an up hill battle.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but when the vast majority or the SWTOR community, in countless posts, have all basically said how this class needs some help, then I would hope that BW start listening or at least take a serious look into the matter.

Help me 2.0, your my only hope! (but sadly, I'm not optimistic)

<edit> I also agree with a lot of the last few posts above, excellent comments.
Bearsfan - Commando Healer / DPS
Chicago - Shadow Tank
BeÓrs - Scoundrel Healer
<The Jedi of Camelot>JawaSpanker Legacy ~ POT5 Server

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
03.28.2013 , 02:13 PM | #1776
Quote: Originally Posted by ChicagoBearsFan View Post
Help me 2.0, your my only hope!
As a die hard Packer fanatic, I absolutely HATE agreeing with a "Bears fan" on anything...however, that was a solid post. Kudos to you...but the Bears still suck
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evilmoka's Avatar


evilmoka
03.28.2013 , 02:16 PM | #1777
Quote: Originally Posted by texoc View Post
Ever thought about fake casting??


jeeez....


Lol yeah spend 2 seconds doing a fake cast....... meanwhile you eat a 7k smash and a 5k force scream. After that you do a real cast BUT WAIT!!!! They have 3-4 more interrupts in que waiting for that next cast.

In other words, melee has so many interrupts that they don't need to be skillful in deployment. Casters just lose, hands down.

Commandos/merc need something like the sniper/gunslinger to be immune to interrupts for like 15 seconds on a 60 second cooldown. This plus another stun/ REAL defensive ability and the changes with holdthe line/electro net WILL solve the commando/merc problems. DPS also needs to be increased probably 15% to be on par with other classes

ChicagoBearsFan's Avatar


ChicagoBearsFan
03.28.2013 , 02:27 PM | #1778
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
As a die hard Packer fanatic, I absolutely HATE agreeing with a "Bears fan" on anything...however, that was a solid post. Kudos to you...but the Bears still suck
Ouch that last part cut deep :P Just when I thought we could be friends...
Bearsfan - Commando Healer / DPS
Chicago - Shadow Tank
BeÓrs - Scoundrel Healer
<The Jedi of Camelot>JawaSpanker Legacy ~ POT5 Server

Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
03.28.2013 , 02:28 PM | #1779
Ravinder - If/when I.D. starts running a Merc as part of a serious lineup for ranked rather than a novelty played against crap pubs () then I'll be more inclined to believe things have changed.
Zachar´ah - Commando / Chasso, Aargh - Merc
The Twinkletoes Legacy
Zachariah's Merc/Mando PvP Guides
2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
03.28.2013 , 02:33 PM | #1780
Given their current domination of the server in ranked it wouldn't surprise me if they queued with a merc one night just to prove a point.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd