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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?
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Pefny's Avatar


Pefny
02.11.2013 , 12:42 PM | #1181
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
(...)
How is a melee going to stay on the merc when he nets you from 30m away? You can't use your gap closers or vanishes.
(...)
There is no force on this Earth and in whole galaxy to make BW give us 30 m electro net. They think that 10 m stun is fine, so electro net would be 10 m for 100%. I know them too well.
CERUS - PYRO MERC/CERFUN - ASSAULT COMMANDO - ATM on vacation, thanks to critical dameges to AC made by BW
CERATION - PYRO/SHIELD PT
BEROYA LEGACY - ToFN

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
02.11.2013 , 12:54 PM | #1182
[QUOTE=ArchangelLBC;5842624]

Quote:
It hits not much harder than Combat Spec Blade Storm without PS, and it still hits less hard than sweep which is what they'll be trying to stop from Focus Spec.
It hits much harder than a carnage mara's BS w/o gore. Focus gets 30% ArP and 6% extra damage from shii-cho.

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For combat it doesn't matter that sweep is melee range. You're waiting to use PS till they blow their knockback anyway if you're smart. Everyone always thinks if you just stop PS > MS you've shut them down, but it's the PS part of that that's dangerous, and that comes up much more often and smart combat sents will look for their opportunity then destroy you with it. Diversion isn't gonna stop it when all they have to do is watch for it and then sweep because, again, Diversion isn't a subtle animation (unlike PS).
See thing about diversion being off GCD, is that you can use it right as they're using their ability. It's similar to popping saber ward on my guardian when I hear PT/VG laugh because they just proc rail shot and will thus use rail shot next, so I pop saber ward and get my 100% parry on it. Diversion works same way. You just have to be good enough to pop it when you know they're going to use something that you want to absorb.

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Although, as you've pointed out, combat sents still have stasis, and they don't need to worry about singularity stacks, so they can use that to clear your Diversion from outside melee range. Thanks for pointing that out.
If they want to use stasis to clear it that's fine by me, that's one less way to them to get singularity and I'm also not stunned. I can proceed to run away so they can't hit me.

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One attack makes the difference, but my point is that everyone will have a relatively low hitting ability they can waste on Diversion, and then get on with it. One GCD can make the difference for a shadow in a good 1v1. It won't make the difference for us.
It all depends on how good you are and how well you can use it. Diversion is going to take a lot of skill to use well, and I'm glad for it.

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Yes you can decide when to use it, but again it's not subtle and smart people will definitely look for it. You don't get to go "Oh he's using BS" and pop Diversion. At that point the damage is going to go through. They'll see it, they'll use their low damaging force/tech ability (honestly only one I'm having trouble thinking of one for is Infiltration Shadow, but I'm sure I can find something, and that's assuming it doesn't just count shadow technique), and then they'll continue on with the pwnage.
Diversion being off GCD means it's a reactive skill, and not proactive in that you use it and wait for enemy to hit you. Instead, you are waiting for them to do something that you want it to absorb. The animation doesn't really matter that much.

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One attack dodged. One. Count 'em.
I'm wondering what happens if you get hit by two or more force/tech attacks from different players at the same time. How does diversion work then? I'm hoping it absorbs both lol.

This is how grounding totem worked in WoW. It's only supposed to absorb one attack, but when two attacks go off same time, it absorbed both.


Quote:
Again, if you think Focus Blade Storm is worth blocking, then so is Combat's, even without PS. Even without the armor pen they still have a 30% boost to it's crit multiplier. Also I don't think you quite appreciate the carnage 5 Blade Rushes in a row can do to a person when they have 100% armor penetration. (Zen reduces the GCD to 1 second for that ability).
Already explained above focus BS hits harder than combat BS w/o 100% ArP.

Diversion has no bearing on melee/ranged so not sure why you mention zen.

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It can definitely happen.
Yeah on a combat sent who has his 100% ArP up and uses dispatch it can happen. But at that point is already overkill, and guardians don't get any talents to make dispatch crit harder.


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The shadow changes alone are pretty amazing. I'm surprised that's not getting more press. Tank Hybrids smacking you in the face with Shadowstrike?
That depends on what the % proc is. Hybrid tanks already get at least 1 point in duplicity which is 10% chance to makes maul do 30% more damage while costing 75% less. The face thing isn't an issue, never hard to get behind or to side of someone to maul them.

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You say that but I can't for the life of me figure out why. Didn't one of the tooltips mention needing both sabers? Wasn't it you pointing out a little while ago that it was most likely for sentinels only? Make up your mind yeah?
Learn2read? Dual saber throw is the one I was talking about that requires 2 sabers to use and is thus for sents only. Saber reflect could be for both, but I doubt it. There's a guardian tanking talent that buffs it, but nothing from sent trees which is why I believe it's only for guardians.

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Any shadow with cooldowns and looking to ball carry can stay alive for 9 seconds. We also don't know if resilience will cleanse it.
Resilience will most likely cleanse it, but it's cd is much longer than the net's.

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I'm not saying electro net isn't pretty cool. All of these abilities from all of these classes are going to be game changers, but electro net looks like pretty much it to me for gunnery, whereas others are getting pretty interesting changes in their trees as well.
Aside from sin's phasewalk and the sage force barrier, I don't think the other class stuff are bigger "game changers" than net.

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Electro Net is pretty much our only hope for unique utility right now, otherwise we're staying out of ranked warzones for the indefinite future.
And it's damn good utility.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
02.11.2013 , 12:55 PM | #1183
Quote: Originally Posted by BoskiCesiu View Post
You think that ridiculous ? So take your commando and go kill jugg/marauder, powertech, assassin, operative.....
I wish you good luck...
I don't need luck because I'm not trying to 1v1 people in WZs like a baddie.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
02.11.2013 , 12:56 PM | #1184
Quote: Originally Posted by Pefny View Post
There is no force on this Earth and in whole galaxy to make BW give us 30 m electro net. They think that 10 m stun is fine, so electro net would be 10 m for 100%. I know them too well.
Every ranged class's snare is 30m. Good try though.

T-Assassin's Avatar


T-Assassin
02.11.2013 , 01:21 PM | #1185
Quote: Originally Posted by yoomazir View Post
Then it's time for you to post those aswesome videos and skills then.
they won't.

i've been in many forum discussions vs. "merc is fine", "l2p", you know the rest.

yet, when i provide parses and SS evidence, the discussion always turns into hearsay and opinion.

i have a VG/assault and a Merc/pyro...i gave my VG the gear my Merc was wearing. instantly, my VG did + ~150-200 DPS...on a dummy, that can't interrupt!!!

in PvP, the disparity is exponential. when it's all about TTK and burst, commando/merc has little to no shot. that is just FACT!

sure, there are superior players that make the class work. but, look at the numbers. go to torparse and see how well these classes are performing...

then, use common sense and a little brain power and realize commando/merc is severly hindered!!
"Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur."
"Today is a good day for someone else to die." -

Quantemoq's Avatar


Quantemoq
02.11.2013 , 01:25 PM | #1186
Quote: Originally Posted by T-Assassin View Post
they won't.

i've been in many forum discussions vs. "merc is fine", "l2p", you know the rest.

yet, when i provide parses and SS evidence, the discussion always turns into hearsay and opinion.

i have a VG/assault and a Merc/pyro...i gave my VG the gear my Merc was wearing. instantly, my VG did + ~150-200 DPS...on a dummy, that can't interrupt!!!

in PvP, the disparity is exponential. when it's all about TTK and burst, commando/merc has little to no shot. that is just FACT!

sure, there are superior players that make the class work. but, look at the numbers. go to torparse and see how well these classes are performing...

then, use common sense and a little brain power and realize commando/merc is severly hindered!!
that is exactely what i did and what kind of results i had.
luckily i have the legacy gun, so in only costed a couple of thousand credits to get my powertech full ewh instantly.

yoomazir's Avatar


yoomazir
02.11.2013 , 02:14 PM | #1187
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
I don't need luck because I'm not trying to 1v1 people in WZs like a baddie.

But others will 1v1 you, what you gonna do then? R.I.P.

DarthBloodloss's Avatar


DarthBloodloss
02.11.2013 , 02:20 PM | #1188
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
Again, as I stated earlier, given the vagaries of the English language, the text can easily be seen as stating Saber Reflect affects direct single target ranged attacks. And tech and force attacks. The mobs currently in the game with a reflect ability DO reflect DoT damage.
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Edited in this part: I read the last few pages and realize this has been discussed enuff. I disagree with the interpretation but I do agree with the fact that regardless of what it says....you never know whats going to actually happen lol. I left my comment below even though its pretty much been talked about enough by now
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The thing is, "Single target direct attack" is describing a Non-DoT attack. There are "direct" and "DoT" attacks. Just going by the English language with no context will make your point true. But in this context, it specifies "Direct" which specifically rules out DoTs.

If you read Rupture and certain skill boxes, there is a damage boost to the DoT portion of the damage (or maybe just the Direct portion?)....so its clear the game can differentiate DoT and Direct damage, even when coming from the same source...or same attack.

Saber Reflect will not reflect DoTs or AoEs, by description IMO....strictly because it says "Direct"
Bloodloss Mercenary
DESTROYER OF WORLDS || KEEPER OF SOULS

texoc's Avatar


texoc
02.11.2013 , 04:29 PM | #1189
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Are you serious?!

AOE damage is completely overrated. AOE damage doesn't take down 2 healers. AOE damage on the scale of 2k per target, doesn't even compare to smash. A cast heal that consumes ammo, takes 2 seconds to cast, is interruptable and is almost entirely useless 95% of the time. The knockback seems great - until you realize you just knocked them all back to leap range as you're rooted/smashed to death.

Gunnery is a worthless spec in PvP. I know some guys can do well with it, but they are certainly not playing top tier players. Every time I see a Merc against me spamming tracer missile, it fills me with joy knowing just how much I'll shut him down the entire match. The only way they are successful, is against a team that anyone would have beaten. The dependence on cast times KILLS the class. The range of the attack means nothing when it takes longer to cast a single attack than it does to close the gap. Sadly, that's the biggest problem with this spec is just how flipping stationary it must be.

The ONLY thing a Commando has going for it over Vanguard, is the 30m interrupt. Otherwise, Vanguard is undeniably better and more team oriented.
When Aoe dmg is overrated why are people playing Smash?

1 Pt isnt going to kill a Healer aswell. But a commando that drops Plasma Grenade, Sticky, Mortar Volley into a group will give the 2 healers cracy amount of Health to heal back up.

You can knock em away after they charged!!! Knock em away to prevent that super smash on your stunned healer. And powertechs dont charge btw!!! Knock em away so you can finish a cap on novare etc.

You can cast Advanced Medical Probe Instant in gunnery with 5 stacks. You can use Tech Override for another instant Medical Probe.

It still sounds like you are fighting alone. GET A TEAM!

Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
Vanguard: all main abilities are instant cast in the greatest damage output spec
Commando: all main abilities are casted regardless of spec

think we found our problem......
Vanguard: 10m range
Commando: 30m range (only 50% are casted, HIB and Demo Round are instant)

Vanguard: gets randomly smashed because he has to stick in the frontline, gets focusfired more often because he is
standing next to the enemy, gets bubble stunned 24/7
Commando: does not get randomly smashed, does not get bubble stunned 24/7, has it easier beeing on the focus
target in time
Previe

yoomazir's Avatar


yoomazir
02.11.2013 , 05:32 PM | #1190
Quote: Originally Posted by texoc View Post
Commando: 30m range (only 50% are casted, HIB and Demo Round are instant)
Yes and... how often do you use you instants one? Every 15 seconds? And during those 15 seconds, won't you need to use your channeled attacks to deal some damage in the meantime? Meaning maybe that our instants represents around 30% of you overall dps? Meaning maybe that during those channeld attack we might, MIGHT, get interrupted/pushed like 1-3 times in a row whileeating instant attack from opponents? Naaaah, what am I saying, of course not, let me just go spam my tracers & unload at, OMG, 30 meters range against a Warrior, yes,hmmmm, yes, to me all the love & glory in the Ranked Warzones !!!!,

Dude, you really are a newbie, it's okay, the harsh reality will sooner or later hit you full face.


EDIT: HA, just found out you are just trolling, good laugh mate, now go back to your lolsmasher.