Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
02.11.2013 , 09:52 AM | #1171
Quote: Originally Posted by Choffware View Post
Are you kidding? you think the reason mercs are having so much trouble is that they don't assist? I don't even know where to start on this one...
yeah, lol

when RWZ first came out, I was actually the one calling out targets for the assist.

really has nothing to do with why Mercs dont stack up against other classes when you compare on an equal level of skill
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
02.11.2013 , 10:22 AM | #1172
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
the bottomline is that other DPS classes are more proficient in almost every way. i recently made the switch to powertech, and it is better than Merc in every way.

i do not feel at a disadvantage for lack of range; the vast majority of combat takes place within 10m, and closing from 30m takes only a few seconds. i never have to stop moving while doing damage. i have much better utility with a pull and an AOE stun.
Exactly!!!! There is nothing a Commando/Merc does that another class can't do better. I made this same switch (Mando to Van) and the difference is staggering. The team utility a Vanguard brings vs. a Mando is just ridiculous.
All warfare is based on deception. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected. If his forces are united, separate them. If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near. A leader leads by example not by force.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
02.11.2013 , 11:09 AM | #1173
LOL@ Grav Round spam = lots of upfront damage.

If we could reliably get out Grav Round in a competitive environment the class wouldn't have issues. The in ability to reliably get it out against anyone who knows what we're doing is a huge part of our DPS issues (which is different from our utility and survivability issues).

Quote:
You realize how hard a focus spec blade storm hits? I regularly crit it for 4.5k. I'd be fine absorbing that one too. Sweep is melee range too, so it runs into the same issue as cauterize. When I knock them away, they can't hit me with it. But once again, the fact that diversion is off GCD means I decide when I want it to absorb something. The enemy cannot get around it like they would be able to if it was on the GCD.
It hits not much harder than Combat Spec Blade Storm without PS, and it still hits less hard than sweep which is what they'll be trying to stop from Focus Spec.

For combat it doesn't matter that sweep is melee range. You're waiting to use PS till they blow their knockback anyway if you're smart. Everyone always thinks if you just stop PS > MS you've shut them down, but it's the PS part of that that's dangerous, and that comes up much more often and smart combat sents will look for their opportunity then destroy you with it. Diversion isn't gonna stop it when all they have to do is watch for it and then sweep because, again, Diversion isn't a subtle animation (unlike PS).

Although, as you've pointed out, combat sents still have stasis, and they don't need to worry about singularity stacks, so they can use that to clear your Diversion from outside melee range. Thanks for pointing that out.

Quote:
One attack can make or break a fight easily. Absorbing a huge hit or CC will turn the fight to your favor.

Ok so you haven't played WoW so that means you don't understand how useful this ability is. I know how useful it is because in WoW one class has the exact same ability called grounding totem, but grounding totem was not off GCD and it was a physical object so you could just whack it with autoattack to remove it. Diversion has neither of these issues and it's usefulness will depend completely on your skill and ability to read the situation to time it right.
One attack makes the difference, but my point is that everyone will have a relatively low hitting ability they can waste on Diversion, and then get on with it. One GCD can make the difference for a shadow in a good 1v1. It won't make the difference for us.

Yes you can decide when to use it, but again it's not subtle and smart people will definitely look for it. You don't get to go "Oh he's using BS" and pop Diversion. At that point the damage is going to go through. They'll see it, they'll use their low damaging force/tech ability (honestly only one I'm having trouble thinking of one for is Infiltration Shadow, but I'm sure I can find something, and that's assuming it doesn't just count shadow technique), and then they'll continue on with the pwnage.

One attack dodged. One. Count 'em.

Quote:
It's about absorbing the 100% armor penetration blade storm. That **** hurts like a truck. Regular blade storm isn't nearly as bad cause we got like 30-35% damage red.
Again, if you think Focus Blade Storm is worth blocking, then so is Combat's, even without PS. Even without the armor pen they still have a 30% boost to it's crit multiplier. Also I don't think you quite appreciate the carnage 5 Blade Rushes in a row can do to a person when they have 100% armor penetration. (Zen reduces the GCD to 1 second for that ability).

Also, they can just stasis which will get absorbed then if you knocked them back early enough they now have time to smack you good with that boosted Blade Storm.

Quote:
Don't think I've ever hit 6k with dispatch. My guardian doesn't have +30% surge for dispatch so it doesn't crit nearly as hard as my commando's demo round which does have that.
It can definitely happen.

Quote:
Net is definitely better than some of the other **** other classes are getting because it's very unique and extremely useful for gibbing classes in RWZ. They can't escape, thus they die.
The shadow changes alone are pretty amazing. I'm surprised that's not getting more press. Tank Hybrids smacking you in the face with Shadowstrike?

Quote:
Saber reflect sounds cool, but it's most likely only for guardians and they need love badly because focus guardians weren't that bad since they're easy as **** to kill, and vig guardians are super lols. Vig didn't really get **** for buffs either. Still only dps tree with no 30% surge talent.
You say that but I can't for the life of me figure out why. Didn't one of the tooltips mention needing both sabers? Wasn't it you pointing out a little while ago that it was most likely for sentinels only? Make up your mind yeah?

Quote:
Phase walk is extremely cool will will completely change the way huttball is played, but net will neutralize it. GG.
Any shadow with cooldowns and looking to ball carry can stay alive for 9 seconds. We also don't know if resilience will cleanse it.

I'm not saying electro net isn't pretty cool. All of these abilities from all of these classes are going to be game changers, but electro net looks like pretty much it to me for gunnery, whereas others are getting pretty interesting changes in their trees as well.

Electro Net is pretty much our only hope for unique utility right now, otherwise we're staying out of ranked warzones for the indefinite future.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

texoc's Avatar


texoc
02.11.2013 , 11:13 AM | #1174
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Exactly!!!! There is nothing a Commando/Merc does that another class can't do better. I made this same switch (Mando to Van) and the difference is staggering. The team utility a Vanguard brings vs. a Mando is just ridiculous.
Vanguard: Taunts, Grapple, Stealth scan, 10m Burst Dmg, aoe 3sec stun, 4m interrupt

Commando: 360° aoe Knockback + 5 sec slow, Stealth Scan, Cleanse, Off-Heals, 30m Burst Dmg, 30m interrupt, 8sec/30m mezz, rediculous amount of AOE,

and if specced gunnery: 4 sec Root and 70% slow on Full Auto (which helps your Team when focusing or peeling off)
Alles Hutten außer Mutti @ TOFN
Evilin - Slinger / Previe - Sage

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
02.11.2013 , 11:55 AM | #1175
Quote: Originally Posted by texoc View Post
Vanguard: Taunts, Grapple, Stealth scan, 10m Burst Dmg, aoe 3sec stun, 4m interrupt

Commando: 360° aoe Knockback + 5 sec slow, Stealth Scan, Cleanse, Off-Heals, 30m Burst Dmg, 30m interrupt, 8sec/30m mezz, rediculous amount of AOE,

and if specced gunnery: 4 sec Root and 70% slow on Full Auto (which helps your Team when focusing or peeling off)
Are you serious?!

AOE damage is completely overrated. AOE damage doesn't take down 2 healers. AOE damage on the scale of 2k per target, doesn't even compare to smash. A cast heal that consumes ammo, takes 2 seconds to cast, is interruptable and is almost entirely useless 95% of the time. The knockback seems great - until you realize you just knocked them all back to leap range as you're rooted/smashed to death.

Gunnery is a worthless spec in PvP. I know some guys can do well with it, but they are certainly not playing top tier players. Every time I see a Merc against me spamming tracer missile, it fills me with joy knowing just how much I'll shut him down the entire match. The only way they are successful, is against a team that anyone would have beaten. The dependence on cast times KILLS the class. The range of the attack means nothing when it takes longer to cast a single attack than it does to close the gap. Sadly, that's the biggest problem with this spec is just how flipping stationary it must be.

The ONLY thing a Commando has going for it over Vanguard, is the 30m interrupt. Otherwise, Vanguard is undeniably better and more team oriented.
All warfare is based on deception. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected. If his forces are united, separate them. If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near. A leader leads by example not by force.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
02.11.2013 , 12:14 PM | #1176
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
i agree that in theory the net thing sounds cool, but it sounds like a base class ability that both VG/PT and Mando/Merc will get.

also, in comparison to the other what the other classes will be getting, Mando/Merc is still likely going to be on the bottom of the totem pole.

this game needed a balance check. bioware needed to pick a certain level of performance, and then bring all classes either up or down to that level. based on the info from the datamine, it looks like they are just buffing every class. which does nothing but preserve the status quo, like ive already said.

and if 1.7 comes out and there are absolutely no changes to class balance, im going to find it hard to justify sticking with this game. i need to find a good guild; playing this game by yourself for the most part if boring as hell
Focus got nerfed pretty good, so not everyone got a flat across the board buff. Bubble stun also got nerfed so it's self only. The two biggest things people complained about--and rightly so--got nerfed. Some of the other class buffs were either meh--like vigilance guardian buffs--to pretty good--deception assassins.

1.7 is coming out tom so ya, there's no class changes. The datamined stuff are most likely expansion.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
02.11.2013 , 12:20 PM | #1177
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
Is English your 8th language or something? All the entities with damage reflect abilities currently reflect DoT damage. And BW has made a habit of inserting descriptions of how abilities work that are diametrically opposed to how they actually work.
*** are you talking about? There is no class ability that reflects damage.

But the description for net specifically says DIRECT DAMAGE, not ALL DAMAGE. Learn2****ingreadyouscrub.



Quote:
If you've ever played a melee, you must be a horrible one. Letting a Merc open up a 30m gap from melee range because he put a 50% snare on you? Horrible. A competent melee will be able to hit the Merc for the full 9 second duration of Electro Net, while the Merc is doing what? Nothing for approximately half that time due to Saber Reflect. The bottom line is that the addition of Saber Reflect + Electro Net is a net add of several free GCDs to a competent melee player. For you, evidently not so much.
How is a melee going to stay on the merc when he nets you from 30m away? You can't use your gap closers or vanishes.

For someone with the name of macroeconomics, you definitely don't understand how the bigger picture works.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
02.11.2013 , 12:25 PM | #1178
Quote: Originally Posted by BoskiCesiu View Post
Juggernaut Vs Commando

Jagg: Saber Throw + Force Charge ~ 2-3,5k dmg
- Force Charge interrupt and stun Commando
- Commando cant stun Juggernaut - Force Charge gives the resistance to all stuns
Jagg: Sundering Assault + Smash ~ 7-8k dmg
Jagg: Force Push + Force Charge ~ 2 k dmg + interrupt, + resistance
Jagg: ravage - cant be interrupt ~ 3-4k dmg + Smash ~6k dmg
Jagg: Vicious Throw ~ 3-4k dmg
Commando is dead - Juggernauts have 90% hp
The same situation with Marauders

Last WZ:
My team: 4 Commando, 1 Guard, 1 Setn., 2 Sages
Enemy team: 1 Sorc., 4 Marauders, 3 Jugger.
We could not leave the respawn....

I have 5 item Elite WH and 20,5k hp, Commando is my main. I play this game from the beginning.
Anyone else think it's funny he spells juggernaut correctly, and then proceeds to use jagg? Like wtflol.

And apparently, in his scenario the commando is being played by a brain dead monkey because they just stand there and do nothing in the 1v1 against the jugg.

BoskiCesiu's Avatar


BoskiCesiu
02.11.2013 , 12:37 PM | #1179
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Anyone else think it's funny he spells juggernaut correctly, and then proceeds to use jagg? Like wtflol.

And apparently, in his scenario the commando is being played by a brain dead monkey because they just stand there and do nothing in the 1v1 against the jugg.
You think that ridiculous ? So take your commando and go kill jugg/marauder, powertech, assassin, operative.....
I wish you good luck...

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
02.11.2013 , 12:37 PM | #1180
Quote: Originally Posted by texoc View Post
Vanguard: Taunts, Grapple, Stealth scan, 10m Burst Dmg, aoe 3sec stun, 4m interrupt

Commando: 360° aoe Knockback + 5 sec slow, Stealth Scan, Cleanse, Off-Heals, 30m Burst Dmg, 30m interrupt, 8sec/30m mezz, rediculous amount of AOE,

and if specced gunnery: 4 sec Root and 70% slow on Full Auto (which helps your Team when focusing or peeling off)
Vanguard: all main abilities are instant cast in the greatest damage output spec
Commando: all main abilities are casted regardless of spec

think we found our problem......
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads