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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Jenzali's Avatar


Jenzali
02.10.2013 , 01:58 PM | #1131
Saber Reflect - "Reflects all direct single target ranged, Force, and Tech attacks back to the attacker "

The wording seems to imply single-target direct abilities. DoTs have never been considered direct in this game, so it seems unlikely that the net DoT would be reflectable back to the caster.

I'm also optimistic that the net will be Merc-only - just like the "Dual Saber Throw" is listed under Jedi Knight when it could clearly only be for Sentinels. There have been a lot of questionable balance changes in this game but even I don't think the devs are so out of touch that they'd actually think that the already unkiteable PTs need even more anti-kiting tools...
Dashto Vant - Arsenal Mercenary - The most dashing bounty hunter in the galaxy.

Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
02.10.2013 , 02:34 PM | #1132
Again, as I stated earlier, given the vagaries of the English language, the text can easily be seen as stating Saber Reflect affects direct single target ranged attacks. And tech and force attacks. The mobs currently in the game with a reflect ability DO reflect DoT damage.

Deluged's Avatar


Deluged
02.10.2013 , 02:43 PM | #1133
I am happy to see the words, "we are looking into it". Its a start.
But I'm not sure the developer's really know what a hassle and frustration playing Commando is.(I don't use my 50 Merc at all anymore)
I chatted this in a War Zone this morning. A sith was standing still a little way off frfom the action. I started engaging him in combat. He never budged an inch. After a couple of my heavy hitting skills(stop laughing)I realized he must be AFK. Ok, I need kills when ever I can get them as a Commando. All's fair in love and war, right?
After un-loading all my main skills..im assault skilld by the way...He was barely down 10% of his health. I was on my no cost skill because I'd given him all I had. He obviously came back just in time to join another of his kind smack down to dust in seconds.

So if he was a moving target, comments of my lack of skill could be fired at me. But for all intents and purposes he was a training dummy.
But this is one in a line of many times I've been frustrated, embarrased, and upset over playing my Commando in PvP.
I do have other 50's. Yes I could stop playing the Commando. But why should I have to? I like the Commando-Merc concept, I pay monthly, shouldn't I at least get a class fix that would bring my PvP enjoyment up some?

I have yet to find anyone in War zones who disagrees with me. And most of the time its me saying, Amen to some other commando complaining.
I wear Heavy Armor, I fall like a cloth wearer, I have a BFG that is half the size of a full grown man. Yet my missles,granades,shells bounce off cloth wearer like they were nerf gun ammo.

The Commando is not just a little behind the others, its so far off its laughable. I chased a guy around today and he didn't even bother to give me a second look. he just kept on fighting the guy he was after, and I'm sure thinking to himself....Dang I"m being shelled from behind, haha, oh wait its just a commando, np I'll ignore him, after all he will probably trip on nail and rip his pretty white armor.

Thanks BW..and all you Dev's who are in love with this game. You can treat me like the guy above. "oh look its a valid complaing, hahah, oh wait, its a commando player again, no sweat I'll keep buffing the other classes, he'll give up soon enough, they always do.
Uneasy lays the head that wears the crown

Pefny's Avatar


Pefny
02.10.2013 , 03:24 PM | #1134
Quote: Originally Posted by Azrienov View Post
One guy posts something on Darth Hater, and this thread turns on itself and starts eating each other. Jesus.(...)
...and because of this we got nice piece of discussion, better than regular "bump for justice" post . C'mon there is no flame war here, no one eating anybody. So our topic and cause still growing.
CERUS - PYRO MERC/CERFUN - ASSAULT COMMANDO - ATM on vacation, thanks to critical dameges to AC made by BW
CERATION - PYRO/SHIELD PT
BEROYA LEGACY - ToFN

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
02.10.2013 , 03:59 PM | #1135
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
It'll be something for the Vanguards/PTs who are also getting it,and have always been the darlings of RWZs. I presume like other trooper effects it'll also be cleansable by operatives.

Why bring a DPS merc?
I doubt VG are getting this net. They already have a 100% surefire way to snare a target. Just because it's listed under the general troopers section doesn't mean it's for both classes. Look at dual saber throw listed under JK. It REQUIRES 2 sabers to use, so it's obviously not meant for guardians.

I'm 90% sure net is commando only.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
02.10.2013 , 04:02 PM | #1136
Quote: Originally Posted by Pefny View Post
I assume that 'cuz it's beetwen abilities for all Troopers/BHs and I don't see the any counterindications to be also VG/PT skill. So far as I know BW better and better I'm pretty sure that, if they add this skill to game will be for both ACs (and has 10m range).

I didn't say that attack absorb is crap, but iif compare it with Sent/Mara reflection it's not that bright. Add to it current situation of Commando/Merc to Sent/Mara. First one is nerfed to the ground and useless, 2nd is viable PvP class and still Merc gonna get buff only "in half" as good as Mara.
Saber reflect doesn't prevent you from getting CCed, nor does it prevent you from taking damage. Also, saber reflect is most likely going to be for guardians since there is a talent that buffs it in the guardian tank tree, but there's no mention of it in the sent trees.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
02.10.2013 , 04:12 PM | #1137
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
Did you even read my prior posts? Have you been paying even the slightest amount of attention? If you put Electro Net on a competent enemy melee, he will keep moving to purposefully ramp up the damage from it, and then once it is at a high level he will put up Saber Reflect and kill you with your own Electro Net. Enemy melee will have an even easier time killing Mercs 1v1 now because even if you get the melee to the point where both sides are at about 20% health, the enemy can use Saber Reflect at the terminal part of the fight for what effectively is an auto kill.
God you're *********** bad. Learn2read. Saber reflect only works against DIRECT *********** attacks. Net is a dot. And most likely guardians are the only ones getting saber reflect.

And the fact melee can't use their gap closers to rape my face for 9s is a godsend. I can kite and kill them now.

Quote:
Nor will Electro Net help kill enemy healers. They can cleanse Electro Net, or in the case of Sorcs, simply keep on moving until the damage becomes meaningful and then use Force Barrier. The only character class that Electro Net provides a net benefit against are Snipers. And there the benefit is miniscule, since they aren't going to move when fighting you anyway.
You don't know if it will be able to be cleansed. There are many things in this game that can't be cleanse. Root from JK leaps cannot, root from talented sage kb cannot, grav round debuff to just name a few.

Do you not understand how useful preventing someone from vanishing, force speeding, leaping is? Sents will no longer able to camo away when they're about to die. Shadows cannot vanish to prevent dying. Guardians won't be able to friendly leap away. Sages won't be able to speed away. Net prevents sooo many classes from using their escape abilities to prevent dying. A commando being able to take that away is extremely useful for rwzs because if your side has one, it effectively negates the enemy's ability to survive.

Also, the fact that clease is on a 4s cd, and prioritizes older debuffs first means you can easily have filler tech/physical debuffs on target that will get cleansed before net does (if net is indeed cleansable). Easy examples are sniper's and VG's spammable dots.

Quote:
You have fallen into the trap of thinking about all our new abilities in isolation and not in the context of how all the new abilities interact and function.
And you just like to cry.

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
02.10.2013 , 04:23 PM | #1138
look, it is really great that Bioware is finally trying to fix the Merc/Mando class 1 year later after breaking it.

what they fail to come through on is bringing our performance up to the level of other DPS classes. *every class is getting a buff with the expansion*.

it honestly feels like bioware has thrown any idea of balance out the window when i read over some of these changes. what type of stuff is bioware smokin that giving marauder/jugss *more* defensive cooldowns is a good idea?

in the end, this changes nothing. if you buff all classes, youve done nothing to affect the status quo.

it is really disappointing to say the least
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

yoomazir's Avatar


yoomazir
02.10.2013 , 04:30 PM | #1139
Quote: Originally Posted by Deluged View Post
I am happy to see the words, "we are looking into it". Its a start.
...
Where did you read that? And is it based on what we're talking here?

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
02.10.2013 , 07:43 PM | #1140
I'm willing to be Electro Net will be a commando exclusive while Shoulder Cannon is a VG exclusive (I suspect this given it's range and the buffs provided to it in VG trees. Fits well with Tactics design philosophy. On the other hand I might be wrong since we do we pulse cannon).

Assuming it doesn't proc Saber Reflect because it's a dot (which I feel is a justified bit of optimism), then I think this will have some pretty awesome group applications and I applaud the ability. Being able to shut down escapes period as well as the snare is pretty powerful.

As far as the diversion change goes, I'll say it. Absorbing one Force/Tech attack is absolute crap. It will take smart knights/warriors exactly one day to figure out how to counter it, especially since it's not what you'd call a subtle animation. (Use cauterize when you see it, that eats up the absorb, proceed with killing). It's better than nothing and might catch a few baddies flatfooted, but lets not pretend it isn't still pretty crap. You were gonna beat those bads anyway in all likelihood.


If it seems like, and others, are overly negative, well that's BW's history at work. I'll expect the worst from them till they can prove they don't make idiotic design decisions with regards to this class or class balance in general. If it turns out I'm wrong I get to be pleasantly surprised. If, as history leads me to believe, we're right to be negative and this will all actually widen the gap even more, then at least I won't be sorely disappointed.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd