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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?
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yoomazir's Avatar


yoomazir
02.07.2013 , 08:20 AM | #1061
Atramar, you really have no idea what you're talking about.

But I'm tired of arguing, I have a merc called Atrisar on the Red Eclipse, I try my best when facing any other good AC player but Shield, Kolto, Jet Boost & Stun Dart alltogether cannot help you to sustain a whole 1 v1 fight against them.

Feel free to come check my gimpy toon if you don't believe me.


Hopefully, like I said in a previous post, pyro mercs are going to get some love in the next classes upgrade, it remains to been seen if it's gonna help us against other AC new skills.

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
02.07.2013 , 08:29 AM | #1062
Quote: Originally Posted by PerinnAybara View Post

Also, Atramar, you sir are an ***.

I have an Assassin I made to "fit the spot" That doesn't mean I don't want to have fun on my Mercenary in Rankeds. Casual play is like 100 skill levels below good rated matches, and that much more fun.
Yeah, tell that to all operatives who can't dps in pve operations since there are better classes for it. They want to have fun too.
Yes, I am an arse, but guess what, so is reality.
You go progress ops, you take who's best fit. You go ranking, it's same.

Quote: Originally Posted by yoomazir View Post

Hopefully, like I said in a previous post, pyro mercs are going to get some love in the next classes upgrade, it remains to been seen if it's gonna help us against other AC new skills.

I hope you are right, all threads 'my class suck and I refuse to do anything else, please buff me or I quit' are getting old. But there are always other classes we can complain about being 'to weak'
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
02.07.2013 , 08:38 AM | #1063
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
Ahh, I love sarcasm in the mornings.

Look, maybe mercs/commandos are not perfect for pvp. You have posts of people with big numbers, soloing their counters... isn't this how it should be?
year ago mercs were one button op and everywhere, people learned how to counter you, and that's it.
when you (not directly you, i mean this whole thread), ask for tools like cc immunity, interrupt immunity, jump immunity, and damage immunity, then don't expect me to treat thread serious.
no one takes mercs for ranked pvp? 2 of my guild officers told me I have to respec to 23/1/17 assassin if I want to do RWZ with them, cause as 0/27/14 I'm not good for team play.
Ofcourse I could go 'whaaa whaaa whaaaa don't treat me like I'm a merc whaaaa', but i respeced and took position I was chosen for.
I really don't care for people who refuse to adapt, think they are being glorified for it, while in reality they waste their and others time. Just like people who refuse to go madness on a sorc begging BIOware for a buff to lightning...
Except people aren't saying to DPS mercs "if you want to go to ranked respec to assault". They aren't even saying "if you want to go to ranked respec to heals". They're saying "if you want to go to ranked REROLL A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CLASS".

If you can't see how that's different from hitting the field respec button on your skill tree and just changing points around for absolutely free then you've missed the conversation.

Listen, I feel like you used to play when the game first launched, then took a very long break. Back then grav round did more damage and a lot of mercs and commandos just spammed it and people let them because they apparently didn't know interrupts were a thing (btw even good gunnery commandos have to spam grav round because literally everything in the tree is tied to it, again that's not our fault, that's BW's fault).

Well they nerfed grav round, and then they nerfed the buff to Demo Round that was supposed to make up for it and that just left the class in a horrible place DPS wise (such backloaded burst in a low TTK environment is already kind of gimp, but at least the punchline used to be ridiculously good).

If it was a matter of switching to assault because gunnery is a PVE spec that would be one thing. But assault sucks out loud too, and with less utility which I didn't even know was possible.

If it was a matter of respeccing heals because the DPS specs just aren't good in PVP that would be ok too. I would grumble, but DPS operatives have the same problem, and their DPS specs are noticeably better than either of ours. Problem here is that their heal spec is also noticeably better (in fact the best) and while we're at it bubble sages are better than we are too. Commando healing is just not up to snuff in PVP, and while there are nevertheless some very good ones a ranked team is pretty much always going to be better off with a operative and bubble sorc as their healers which leaves us SoL (and when they nerf bubble stuns everyone will probably go back to double operative).

So that's all three specs that aren't ranked viable, and any other merc is having to be ten times better than his competition to get 80% of the results in NORMAL warzones, and every single one of them will get much better performance out of another class. So no matter how many times you say "adapt or die" in some sort of snide manner, having an entire class be sub par in every single spec is just crap and we darn well should demand changes, and for that matter BW should make changes to actually improve the situation.

Quote:
I hope you are right, all threads 'my class suck and I refuse to do anything else, please buff me or I quit' are getting old. But there are always other classes we can complain about being 'to weak'
Check how long this thread has been going on, and how many of us have been here for pretty much all that time (and when this one started there was a similar thread that hit 60 pages). A lot of us aren't threatening to quit. We just want to play our favorite class in PVP, preferably ranked, and we can't do that in any spec with a clear conscience (I know I won't inflict my commando on my guild when I have a shadow who is 100 times more useful).

I agree that we aren't the only class that could use a buff. Honestly all three healing ACs are very subpar in their DPS specs. DPS operatives need a buff, or just a roll back on nerfs that have no reason to have happened now that on use relics and adrenals can't be used. Sages need a buff to make them ranked viable once they nerf bubble stuns, which btw they should totally nerf bubble stuns, but only after giving sages said buff.

I don't play those classes though and cannot provide much insight on how they might be buffed, and so I don't participate in those threads because I have nothing to contribute. I DO play a commando though, and feel I am keenly aware of its shortcomings in PVP and able to contribute intelligently about how to fix the class.

Welcome to the conversation.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Lowyjowylof's Avatar


Lowyjowylof
02.07.2013 , 08:47 AM | #1064
Looks like some decent changes...My questions would be on how much of a difference the nerf to DR would make at level 55 and the same for the change in damage spread of GR. Maybe the changes are so that at 55 we're not running around like LolSmashers with 10k DRs. We couldn't have that now could we.

Also, will talent trees be adjusted to kill off hybrids and make full tanks relevant in PvP? And are they going to even look at internal/elemental damage and add mitigation to it on heavy armor. IMO, albeit maybe far fetched, if heavy armor had internal/elemental mitigation on par with it's standard mitigation, it would add to our survivability quite a bit in PvP since a good portion pvpers run dot builds.
Battle is an orgy of disorder.
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Jenzali's Avatar


Jenzali
02.07.2013 , 11:41 AM | #1065
Not posting a link, but it does seem as if Troopers will be getting a resource system that matches the Bounty Hunter's judging from the costs of abilities.
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
02.07.2013 , 12:04 PM | #1066
Quote: Originally Posted by Jenzali View Post
Not posting a link, but it does seem as if Troopers will be getting a resource system that matches the Bounty Hunter's judging from the costs of abilities.
Oh?! They're changing the ammo mechanic to more closely mimic heat you think?
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Ecaj's Avatar


Ecaj
02.07.2013 , 12:20 PM | #1067
Quote: Originally Posted by Dovahbrah View Post
Admittedly, I haven't touched my Commando since late January, due to the fact that I could see the train wreck that was coming later on. Once people figured out how to play their classes well, especially melee, it was apparent that DPS mercs/commandos would be at the bottom of the food chain.

*clipped*
Just a question, but could it be because Bioware wants these classes to focus on healing rather than dps? There are more than enough dps classes in this game, why does everyone seem to want EVERY class to be tops in dps? I have a merc and have always been healer spec'd, I don't want to dps on her and if I rolled a commando it'd be to heal too. I want to dps I'll get on my Marauder, my sentinel, or I'll roll a sniper/gunslinger.

Aelaias's Avatar


Aelaias
02.07.2013 , 12:28 PM | #1068
Assault spec does not do enough dps on its own due to absence of instant abilities such as Ion Pulse and the additional armor penetration and elemental dps enjoyed by vanguards. Also, charged bolt and the other channel which resets HIB whose name escapes me atm are very weak abilities in assault spec and deprive the class of mobility. Their damage should be upgraded perhaps through synergy.

The problems with gunnery have been described ad nauseum. Fundamentally there should be a solution somewhat akin to gs/sniper-type cover stance allowing the class to dps in the face of melee which can render the spec completely useless at this time. What's the point of running around a column if hammer shot is your only attack? The spec is dysfunctional in a pvp setting.
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Lowyjowylof's Avatar


Lowyjowylof
02.07.2013 , 12:36 PM | #1069
Quote: Originally Posted by Ecaj View Post
Just a question, but could it be because Bioware wants these classes to focus on healing rather than dps? There are more than enough dps classes in this game, why does everyone seem to want EVERY class to be tops in dps? I have a merc and have always been healer spec'd, I don't want to dps on her and if I rolled a commando it'd be to heal too. I want to dps I'll get on my Marauder, my sentinel, or I'll roll a sniper/gunslinger.
I doubt that's the case because Commando healer isn't even on Par with Scoundrel and in PVE, Commando IMO is better in a lot of instances than Smuggler. The problem is that the utility and abilities Commando offer in PVE doesn't translate in PVP because of the speed of PVP.
Battle is an orgy of disorder.
George S. Patton

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
02.07.2013 , 01:10 PM | #1070
Quote: Originally Posted by Ecaj View Post
Just a question, but could it be because Bioware wants these classes to focus on healing rather than dps? There are more than enough dps classes in this game, why does everyone seem to want EVERY class to be tops in dps? I have a merc and have always been healer spec'd, I don't want to dps on her and if I rolled a commando it'd be to heal too. I want to dps I'll get on my Marauder, my sentinel, or I'll roll a sniper/gunslinger.
Its not outside the realm of reason to want to shoot things on the class that hauls around a big FU assault cannon.

You see the dude from predator? He wasn't trying to heal him.

Course he wasn't damaging him either really so just goes to show stealth classes will dominate.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd