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The Foundry(spoilers) WHAT THE !!!!???

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
The Foundry(spoilers) WHAT THE !!!!???

LUCASCASADEIS's Avatar


LUCASCASADEIS
10.28.2012 , 12:21 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by TrakonBazzaak View Post
Im sure this has been posted before, but I want to bring my own perspective to the subject.


As a primary pub player, who saw Revan in the flashpoints on that side, and reading the Revan novel, I sorta thought it was kind of a boring tie in with swtor and had no idea what happened to him after we release him from his prison. Being that Revan is my favorite video game hero/villian of all time I was very excited before release to see what happened to this mighty character.

Today I finally reached the appropriate level to do the foundry on my imperial character. Having No idea what the foundry was about I was pleasantly surprised to hear Revans initial monologue in the flashpoint.

On repub side I have always felt it was sort of dumb to kill off hk 47 in the way we did during the false emporer. Malgus's death was slightly lackluster for me as well and seemed a bit rushed, but I wasnt as attached to him as I was hk 47.

Now after doing the foundry I am slightly confused as to the canon death of HK 47, was he with Malgus when he died or was he with Revan?

I was also very dissapointed in the super fast loose end tie up feel for the death of the exile and T7.

Now this.

I killed revan in a party of noobs. Lvl 37ish nobodies.

Why did EA/Bioware feel the need to kill off iconic characters in such a boring way?

Revan almost conquers the ENTIRE GALAXY, and then SAVES IT!

What kind of anti climactic storytelling is it that I go in and kill him and his assassin droid with ease during a random mid level flashpoint???

If I could uninstall this game and pretend I never saw this I would.

Thanks for completely crapping on the storyline Bioware.

Seriously.
you don't understand very well, revan has been in the ecstasy for 300 years, there the emperor were taking his power and everything, then the jedi found him and then the best imperial agant, the best sith warrior, the best sith inquisitor, the best bounty hunter, they went to the foundry and they are the best of all of them. and remember in star wars there are no levels, that means they are the best of all the empire, for that he died, (dissapear) they were the best and the emperor were taking his power

Heimskringla's Avatar


Heimskringla
10.30.2012 , 10:21 AM | #12
In the context of TOR's characterization of each of the player characters as heroes (or anti-heroes), it does make sense. Revan was never meant to be Jedi Jesus. He was a powerful Jedi who did unique things; he was also imperfect and in possession of flaws and weaknesses. Personally, I think his end was more than fitting. The Exile got the rough end of the deal.
111
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- I spent $149.95 on a video game with no release date, and all I got was the key to the executive washroom.

Biancaneri's Avatar


Biancaneri
10.30.2012 , 10:49 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Revan was a shell of his former self. Broken after 300 years of battle with the Emperor's mind. He was driven mad, his morals twisted and his mind deluded.

He wasn't beaten by some random team of Imperials either. He was beaten by the best team the Empire could throw at them. And they weren't even at the height of their power. But he probably isn't dead... yet.
I'm pretty sure he's dead in terms of physical body death, just as I'm sure he's around as a force ghost now. The point where the battle ends is definitively before Revan runs out of health. The party don't kill him. They do, however, beat him to the verge of death. When it reaches that point, the realisation of how wrong the things he was about to do (ie the indiscriminate genocide of almost the entire imperial population) were hit him, and he perhaps saw the effect the Emperor had upon him as he had influenced the Emperor. Horrified, he chose to die, to become one with the Force, rather than allow the taint of the Emperor drive him to greater horrors. He tells this to the player by quoting Malak's dying words as an acknowledgement that he was too far gone to be saved.

At least, that's how I choose to interpret it until someone deciddes to try and make money by bringing Revan back from the dead.

Mercurial_Harpy's Avatar


Mercurial_Harpy
10.30.2012 , 10:54 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Heimskringla View Post
Revan was never meant to be Jedi Jesus. He was a powerful Jedi who did unique things; he was also imperfect and in possession of flaws and weaknesses.
/thread

Heee. Gotta admit I lol'd at that.

All my mains are Imperial, and I love love love The Foundry. Personally, I delight in "defeating" his pompous, crazy @ss. You do realize he was about to commit genocide, right? Throughout the FP, you get to pick conversation options basically saying "some Jedi YOU are." I pick them every time.

Revan was a great character but his time is over. And he is clearly, clearly insane at the time of SWTOR. Since people think of themselves as "Revan" because they played as him (or her), there is no end to the story that will satisfy KOTOR players. I question the decision of Bioware to even bring him into this game. He may have been better relegated to holocron or force-ghost land.

But, it is what it is. Since the barn door was left open by Bioware and he was included in the game, however peripherally, I just don't think it's possible to make anyone happy in regards to his fate.

* * *
~The Argost Legacy~

~Jedi Covenant~

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.30.2012 , 12:41 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Biancaneri View Post
I'm pretty sure he's dead in terms of physical body death, just as I'm sure he's around as a force ghost now. The point where the battle ends is definitively before Revan runs out of health. The party don't kill him. They do, however, beat him to the verge of death. When it reaches that point, the realisation of how wrong the things he was about to do (ie the indiscriminate genocide of almost the entire imperial population) were hit him, and he perhaps saw the effect the Emperor had upon him as he had influenced the Emperor. Horrified, he chose to die, to become one with the Force, rather than allow the taint of the Emperor drive him to greater horrors. He tells this to the player by quoting Malak's dying words as an acknowledgement that he was too far gone to be saved.

At least, that's how I choose to interpret it until someone deciddes to try and make money by bringing Revan back from the dead.
That's what I would prefer as well. If he does come back, make him a Force ghost. His story has to end sometime, but no matter what end we see, it won't be enough for some people.
Added Chapter 44 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

ObiWanBaikonur's Avatar


ObiWanBaikonur
10.31.2012 , 12:34 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Biancaneri View Post
I'm pretty sure he's dead in terms of physical body death, just as I'm sure he's around as a force ghost now. The point where the battle ends is definitively before Revan runs out of health. The party don't kill him. They do, however, beat him to the verge of death. When it reaches that point, the realisation of how wrong the things he was about to do (ie the indiscriminate genocide of almost the entire imperial population) were hit him, and he perhaps saw the effect the Emperor had upon him as he had influenced the Emperor. Horrified, he chose to die, to become one with the Force, rather than allow the taint of the Emperor drive him to greater horrors. He tells this to the player by quoting Malak's dying words as an acknowledgement that he was too far gone to be saved.

At least, that's how I choose to interpret it until someone deciddes to try and make money by bringing Revan back from the dead.
I think this is a great interpretation that does justice to the character of Revan and to his Legacy and fits the lore in terms of the mutual influence of Revan and the Emperor on each other. He had a realization of what he was about to do and knew that if he fought on he would go further down the dark path. To preserve the light that remained in him he had to surrender himself to the force.
"You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." -Obi Wan Kenobi

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seekerofpower's Avatar


seekerofpower
11.08.2012 , 09:29 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Mercurial_Harpy View Post
/thread

Heee. Gotta admit I lol'd at that.

All my mains are Imperial, and I love love love The Foundry. Personally, I delight in "defeating" his pompous, crazy @ss. You do realize he was about to commit genocide, right? Throughout the FP, you get to pick conversation options basically saying "some Jedi YOU are." I pick them every time.

Revan was a great character but his time is over. And he is clearly, clearly insane at the time of SWTOR. Since people think of themselves as "Revan" because they played as him (or her), there is no end to the story that will satisfy KOTOR players. I question the decision of Bioware to even bring him into this game. He may have been better relegated to holocron or force-ghost land.

But, it is what it is. Since the barn door was left open by Bioware and he was included in the game, however peripherally, I just don't think it's possible to make anyone happy in regards to his fate.

* * *
The KotOR games are some of my favorite RPGs of all time, and I am very content with the direction they took and the end they chose for Revan's story.
As stated previously, Revan's mind had been ravaged be the Emperor for 300 years, the strike team that attacked him was the best of best and he puts up a damn good fight.
My only dissagreement with what was said in this thread is the idea that Revan was committing genocide out of insanity. After Revan's redemption, he was always considered more of a Grey Jedi than a pure light character. He understood the lengths that had to be taken in war. He was willing to do what needed to be done.
I think he was totally in his right mind when he came up with that plan.
"Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds."

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
11.08.2012 , 01:34 PM | #18
Genocide is not a "gray Jedi" plan. It's pure darkside stuff. In fact, it's worse than anything he ever did as Darth Revan, so it practically reverses his entire redemption arc altogether.

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
11.08.2012 , 02:03 PM | #19
thing is, the novel revean sees reven once he gets his mask back going to the ole "I CAN USE DARK AND LIGHT TOGETHER" stuff...

thing is that additude is about the surest way to fall I can think of

LadyTributary's Avatar


LadyTributary
11.08.2012 , 02:38 PM | #20
If you've never played KOTOR, Revan is a somewhat unremarkable nutter who keeps making claims about being light side even though he's clearly not, what with the genocide already noted.

The first time I met him, I was like, "Oh, neat. It's the guy that the cult on Dromund Kaas was named after," because I love it when they tie storylines together. And then Revan went on and on about having once been Sith and now being Jedi, and I was like, "Oh, and he's delusional to boot."

I happened to remark to my friend, who was a huge fan of KOTOR, that Revan was a crazy fallen Jedi who talks too much, and he sputtered and choked and nearly fell out of his chair. "Seriously," I said. "The guy just goes on and on about how awesome he is." This prompted my friend to then go on and on about how awesome Revan was.

Revan is a formidable opponent as a flashpoint boss, but when you don't have the rose-colored glasses, he's not that much more special than say, Mentor of Directive Seven, who also wants to commit genocide, likes to hear himself talk, and is pretty impressed by himself.

Revan's memory has clearly made a cult both in character and out of game. And the characters in the game think that the Revanite cult on Dromund Kaas is a little crazy for their worship of the fellow. He was great, I get that, but his time has passed, and his story has an interesting ending.