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What's the staus on Same-Sex Romances?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
What's the staus on Same-Sex Romances?

harpuax's Avatar


harpuax
10.26.2012 , 07:51 PM | #11
On hold with everything else till they put a dollar sign on everything in the game for FTP.

Really they could have done this quite easily if they wanted to. Very few if any of the "flirt" options specify what gender they are speaking to. They simply need to lift some restrictions on the conversations. I don't think they would even need to add any new voice overs. They say that it isn't in their (the companions) personality, but none of them scream "hey I am straight" anyway, and to say any one of them don't act homosexual is a but stereotypical to begin with. In fact sexual preference is almost never mentioned (think I heard it once and that was with a regular NPC) with any companion. So what about them makes them so straight already? Just lift the conversation restrictions and most people would be happy.

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
10.26.2012 , 08:05 PM | #12
For the sake of thoroughness, and because I have been keeping track, here is everything that we know of BioWare saying on this subject since its announcement a year ago last September. This doesn't tell us anything about the current status of the content. We have had no firm word of any kind since March.

Oddly, none of this was posted here on the Community Forums. (although the initial announcement by Stephen Reid has been reposted occasionally by various community representatives, and it has also had a long career as the stock answer given by Customer Support droids to any enquiry touching on same-sex romance). The Community Team have not offered any information of any sort regarding the status of same-gender romantic content since launch.

The September Announcement and following remarks were made on or around September 12, 2011 on the pre-launch forums, which are no longer available. Daniel Erickson's remarks were made during the developer panel on the final day of the Guild Summit hosted from March 4-6, 2012 in Austin, Texas. Gabe Amatangelo's remarks were made at Gamescom 2012, held from August 15-19 in Cologne, Germany in an interview conducted by the folks at European fansite swtor-life.com. Hall Hood's retracted quasi-confirmation of those remarks were posted to his Twitter account on September 25, 2012.

Quote: Originally Posted by Stephen Reid
Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options.
Stephen made a few additional posts at the time, addressing and clarifying this announcement:

Quote: Originally Posted by Stephen Reid
First of all, this is definitely not an audience that consists of a 'couple of people' and we're aware of that. We take this decision very seriously.

Second, it's very important to realize that this is just one of many, many content additions that will be going into the game post launch. The vast majority of our content will be of interest to the vast majority of our potential audience.

However, one of the amazing things about MMOs is that over time we can get to add things that are exciting and interesting to smaller audiences. Normally, that's not something that's addressed too far ahead of time. In this case, we felt the addition was warranted and should be addressed early.

There will be plenty of content for all to play and enjoy.
and

Quote: Originally Posted by Stephen Reid
We can't guarantee that a character you play at launch would have romance options 'unlocked' for an existing companion. It's something that will be taken into consideration when making design decisions. Not a promise it'll happen, but we'll take that feedback and relay it through to design.

We fully intend to do justice to the story in our storylines.

As you may have heard, we take story very seriously - this included.

Lastly for those of you who seem concerned that you will be 'tricked' into any romance arc in the game - all romance choices are clearly marked. You will be aware you're making those choices as you make them.
Although requests for an update on the status of same-gender content consistently made up about 10% of questions asked in the initial weeks of the Weekly Q&A on this forum, no new information was forthcoming until six months after Reid's announcement. Lead Writer Daniel Erickson finally offered the following:

Quote: Originally Posted by Daniel Erickson
[Given in reply to the player-submitted question, "Is there any update on same gender romance?"]

Is that a question people have? [laughter] This is an interesting one, because it sort of lit up and we honestly felt like if we give an update on it every single time We've always said the same thing with it, which is that it's coming, and it's coming with story updates. And we totally understand when people hear "soon" maybe I should have put TM next to it that says "writer soon" but writers have a much, much larger lead time than you would expect, and we want to do any of this stuff right.

We heard suggestions, and we do read the stuff, and let's talk a little about the stuff that we were not willing to do. We were not willing to go in and just change all the dialogue to work for the other gender. That is not writing. That is not good storytelling. When we do this, we want to do it right. We want to do it with the characters that it makes sense, that we always knew we actually wanted to do it for those.

So you guys know, when we talked about it before, it ended up being a budget and scheduling issue. There are romance arcs that we wanted to do that didn't make it into the game. We knew which characters I'm not going to tell you... [laughter, suggestions of "Forex" and "Blizz" from audience] ...It's nice to know that somebody else was thinking of Forex, too. But, ah so, the short answer is it's never changed, it's still coming. It's coming when full story comes. And when is full story coming? This year. So we are still on track.
Principal Lead PvP Designer Gabe Amatangelo gave this short statement at the close of an interview which was mostly about the coming Warzone, Ancient Hypergates:

Quote: Originally Posted by Gabe Amatangelo
[swtor-life.com interview at Gamescom 2012, August 1519]

Um, the same-sex relationship stuff, there is I think it is in Makeb? In the new update, I think there is some stuff in there. But I don't know exactly. I'm not, not a writer. That's sort of the aspect that I am farthest from. But it really comes down to just getting it on the schedule and getting that content into the game
Lead Writer Hall Hood was asked if he could verify that SGRs would in fact be coming with Makeb, and replied laconically:

Quote: Originally Posted by Hall Hood
[via Twitter, Sept. 25 2012]

Hall Hood @hallhood
(1 of 2) To all the folks who have been expressing interest in SGRs, here is the official word from Gabe Amatangelo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tt49...tu.be&t=10m49s

(2 of 2) When I can share more information, I will let you know. Writing romances is one of my favorite things about working on SWTOR. :-)
Shortly after being posted, the tweet labled (1 of 2) was removed from Hood's Twitter feed without comment, but it had been seen and documented by multiple players who follow him. When I last checked, the tweet labeled (2 of 2) was still posted there and labeled as such.

To date, that's the official word as it has come out over the past year. No date for Makeb has been announced, but if Gabe Amatangelo's cautiously disclaimed information is in fact accurate, we should expect to hear at least something more on same-gender content closer to when that is ready for release.

QwibQwib's Avatar


QwibQwib
10.26.2012 , 08:06 PM | #13
I remember the devs saying something about actually crafting new dialogue to make it "fit" with the characters. To just change a few pronouns here and there "wouldn't be good writing."

Not sure how much I believe it though. At this point in time, a few changed pronouns closer to launch would've probably been better than waiting a year for what they consider "good writing."

QwibQwib's Avatar


QwibQwib
10.26.2012 , 08:09 PM | #14
Darn it, Uluain, you ninja'd me :P

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
10.26.2012 , 08:22 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by QwibQwib View Post
Darn it, Uluain, you ninja'd me :P
Sorry. I keep all of that in a text file for ease of reference.

I do also try to make myself useful keeping an eye on the Dev Tracker to point people to answers already given to the questions they ask, since I am going to be a pest about this anyway.

And yes, I do have a life, and there are larger concerns (I live in Ohio, I do vote) but I care about this.

DarknessInLight's Avatar


DarknessInLight
10.26.2012 , 09:07 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Kourage View Post
You underestimate how many nerds play as female characters and want to romance female companions.
Fixed for accuracy.
Jedi do not fight for Peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading, as slogans always are. Jedi fight for Civilization, because only Civilization creates Peace. - Jedi Master Mace Windu

natashina's Avatar


natashina
10.26.2012 , 09:22 PM | #17
Truthfully, after over ten months, its more than fair to have another thread open on this subject. For one thing, it gets the topic back into the public eye (as it were.) Also, as it was stated previously, there is a ton of unlocked and duplicate threads on things such as hood toggles, ect.

It's not just the members of the LGBT community that want SSRs. There have been many different kinds of roleplayers that want this content, and have wondered why there has been no concrete word. Oh and trust me, it isn't all nerdy teenage guys looking for some female pixel-on-pixel action either. There is some ladies and some gents I know of that aren't teenage and are not looking at female companions. We'd like at least a direct confirmation by BW on the statements made by the PvP Developer Gabe Amatangelo.

Opposite Gender Romance is already in the game; Jade Empire and ME3 had SGR and players were promised it in ToR. If this content is coming with Makeb, this would be a good time to let the players know about it. Plus, datamining of Makeb has already begun and they'll probably need to squash some rumors. It would be a great time for BW to talk to the player base about confirming SGRs. We have been promised this year, and I'm holdin' them to it.

Edit: Also the name of the thread is "Same gender relationships clarifications?" SGR is more commonly used than SSR. Last time I googled for SGR, the 3rd hit on the first page linked back to the Story and Lore thread on this matter.

Fyuria's Avatar


Fyuria
10.26.2012 , 09:30 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by natashina View Post
Truthfully, after over ten months, its more than fair to have another thread open on this subject. For one thing, it gets the topic back into the public eye (as it were.) Also, as it was stated previously, there is a ton of unlocked and duplicate threads on things such as hood toggles, ect.

It's not just the members of the LGBT community that want SSRs. There have been many different kinds of roleplayers that want this content, and have wondered why there has been no concrete word. Oh and trust me, it isn't all nerdy teenage guys looking for some female pixel-on-pixel action either. There is some ladies and some gents I know of that aren't teenage and are not looking at female companions. We'd like at least a direct confirmation by BW on the statements made by the PvP Developer Gabe Amatangelo.

Opposite Gender Romance is already in the game; Jade Empire and ME3 had SGR and players were promised it in ToR. If this content is coming with Makeb, this would be a good time to let the players know about it. Plus, datamining of Makeb has already begun and they'll probably need to squash some rumors. It would be a great time for BW to talk to the player base about confirming SGRs. We have been promised this year, and I'm holdin' them to it.

Edit: Also the name of the thread is "Same gender relationships clarifications?" SGR is more commonly used than SSR. Last time I googled for SGR, the 3rd hit on the first page linked back to the Story and Lore thread on this matter.
Well said. I for one would like to hear an official word from Bioware over data mining rumours that will start popping up.

harpuax's Avatar


harpuax
10.26.2012 , 09:55 PM | #19
They said "we were not willing to go in and just change all the dialogue to work for the other gender. That is not writing. That is not good storytelling." Where in the current writing and good story telling is any reference to any companion or NPC being heterosexual? What in any of their stories references them as any sexuality? It's not like you get the option to "flirt" them and the reply with "sorry, that's not my thing" (ok I think this happens once in the whole game), you never even get the option to try. I just don't understand what writing they are talking about.

Stenrik's Avatar


Stenrik
10.26.2012 , 10:02 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by harpuax View Post
They said "we were not willing to go in and just change all the dialogue to work for the other gender. That is not writing. That is not good storytelling." Where in the current writing and good story telling is any reference to any companion or NPC being heterosexual? What in any of their stories references them as any sexuality? It's not like you get the option to "flirt" them and the reply with "sorry, that's not my thing" (ok I think this happens once in the whole game), you never even get the option to try. I just don't understand what writing they are talking about.
Exactly, I felt the same way when they said that. I see no way that "retrofitting" stuff = "bad writing."
Maybe they're thinking of things like Mako's previous hetero relationship, which is made clear before the Bounty Hunter even gets her as a companion. However, that doesn't mean she can't be bi.